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A Look into CBL-Mariner, Microsoft’s Internal Linux Distribution

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Re: A Look into CBL-Mariner, Microsoft’s Internal Linux Distribution

#51

Post by R0b0t1 »

Osiris wrote: post #6
l0b0 wrote: post #4

It seems almost inevitable that Windows will eventually become a Linux distro. Microsoft could replace incredibly resilient cruft like NTFS with EXT4 or ZFS and the registry with human readable configuration files. On the other hand, they could replace Bash with PowerShell and hopefully pressure various orgs to adopt some sensible subset of configuration formats.

I'm not so sure. Windows driver model is vastly different than Linux. Linux drivers have to be compiled for every kernel release. Windows drivers that are more than a decade old can still be installed and work correctly.

The windows driver model is not semantically much different. There is greater cohesion at a higher level, leading to it being easier to create a shim layer for, if anything.

Re: A Look into CBL-Mariner, Microsoft’s Internal Linux Distribution

#53

Post by beagle3 »

michrassena wrote: post #29
jeswin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly not for me. Registry was one of the worst parts of the Windows experience for me; but I understand it can be subjective. With separate files, the ability to download and replace them individually is a big win. Also, I can use terminal tools on them which is great for automation.

I've never understood the criticism of the registry. The only times I've ever had an issue with it were when there were RAM or disk problems with the computer. On Windows there's nothing at all stopping developers of standard Windows applications from implementing their own config files and many do.

1. Most of the programs put things all over the place. If you install software and use it for a while, you may find lots of keys in lots of places, all subtly affecting something.

It’s technically the fault of the program, not the registry. But culture and ecosystems matter, and by-and-large, Config in files is usually much more concentrated.

2. Related to (1), it is very hard to just move settings from one machine to another. How do you export your settings related to program X in order to use it on another machine? I keep my Linux config files in a git repository - I can easily track history and clone it to new machines. What’s the registry equivalent?

3. It is incredibly slow. When I still used windows, if I needed to do some registry editing, I would dump it to a text file, edit and then import the edited keys. That took about 1/10 of the time doing the same took in ResEdit.

Re: A Look into CBL-Mariner, Microsoft’s Internal Linux Distribution

#54

Post by smitty1e »

l0b0 wrote: post #4

It seems almost inevitable that Windows will eventually become a Linux distro. Microsoft could replace incredibly resilient cruft like NTFS with EXT4 or ZFS and the registry with human readable configuration files. On the other hand, they could replace Bash with PowerShell and hopefully pressure various orgs to adopt some sensible subset of configuration formats.

Agreed. By the end of the decade, one expects Windows to be a desktop experience loke Apple's Aqua atop a Linix chassis, as the drift continues.

Why put money into the kernel beside that of a Linux Foundation member?

Re: A Look into CBL-Mariner, Microsoft’s Internal Linux Distribution

#55

Post by danellis »

beebmam wrote: post #46
azinman2 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile no one at Apple is using windows unless they have to for very specific software.

That's unfortunately their loss in my opinion. Windows has a pretty awesome development story, far better than Apple's authoritarian hold on what software can be run and distributed for that platform. Moreover, gaming is great on Windows, and always has been, and WSL2 is extremely slick.

> Apple's authoritarian hold on what software can be run and distributed for that platform

What does that mean? I've never needed Apple's permission to run any software on macOS.

Re: A Look into CBL-Mariner, Microsoft’s Internal Linux Distribution

#56

Post by mcs_ »

nuller wrote: post #49
azinman2 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile no one at Apple is using windows unless they have to for very specific software.

I was forced to use a Mac, wehen I worked at Apple. Absolutely horrible piece of hardware. Keys sucked, touch bar useless. Had to carry around an external keyboard. Luckily I could bring my own external keyboard, which meade it somewhat bearable.

I use Linux everyday with an apple keyboard. The way we train our mussle memory and how it becomes our reality is fascinating.

Re: A Look into CBL-Mariner, Microsoft’s Internal Linux Distribution

#57

Post by Cosmin_C »

beagle3 wrote: post #53
michrassena wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood the criticism of the registry. The only times I've ever had an issue with it were when there were RAM or disk problems with the computer. On Windows there's nothing at all stopping developers of standard Windows applications from implementing their own config files and many do.

1. Most of the programs put things all over the place. If you install software and use it for a while, you may find lots of keys in lots of places, all subtly affecting something. It’s technically the fault of the program, not the registry. But culture and ecosystems matter, and by-and-large, Config in files is usually much more concentrated. 2. Related to (1), it is very hard to just move settings from one machine t…

I agree to the above in a painful way. I don't think of myself as a power user but I have at times to clean up the registry for stuff that uninstallers missed because the updated application does not want to install. It's a complete mess of having to dig through a tip to find a broken match box so you can destroy it without setting on fire the whole thing.

Meanwhile OS X or Linux don't suffer from this and working with applications is a lot more "streamlined". As I said, this is just a slightly above average skilled end-user perspective.

Re: A Look into CBL-Mariner, Microsoft’s Internal Linux Distribution

#58

Post by calt »

mcs_ wrote: post #56
nuller wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was forced to use a Mac, wehen I worked at Apple. Absolutely horrible piece of hardware. Keys sucked, touch bar useless. Had to carry around an external keyboard. Luckily I could bring my own external keyboard, which meade it somewhat bearable.

I use Linux everyday with an apple keyboard. The way we train our mussle memory and how it becomes our reality is fascinating.

He's probably talking about the butterfly key keyboards build into Macbooks that were notoriously bad in the mid-late teens.

The external keyboards were never so bad.

Re: A Look into CBL-Mariner, Microsoft’s Internal Linux Distribution

#59

Post by zaphirplane »

marcodiego wrote: post #28
Osiris wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure. Windows driver model is vastly different than Linux. Linux drivers have to be compiled for every kernel release. Windows drivers that are more than a decade old can still be installed and work correctly.

Linux drivers can work for much longer than a decade once they reach mainline. Out of tree drivers are another story.

Mainline drivers are maintained and updated, I think the statement you are replying to is short hand for “windows binary drivers work for years across kernel versions and minor distribution version”

Re: A Look into CBL-Mariner, Microsoft’s Internal Linux Distribution

#60

Post by pjmlp »

ThrowawayB7 wrote: post #39
vermilingua wrote: post #35

A MS dev writing a blog on building MS’ own distro of Linux on his _Macbook_ must have Ballmer sweating bullets.

Ballmer was forced out of MS 8 years ago, doubt he cares. And anyway, IIRC, it would've been Sinofsky and co. trying to squash anything that threatened the Windows division's power.

Sinofsky and co. are also to blame for Longhorn sabotage of using .NET, and most likely trying to bring Midori stuff into Windows.

Now Project Reunion, sorry Windows 11, is trying to fix the path started with Windows 8.

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