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25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

michael.stapelberg.ch

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Re: 25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

#311

Post by icedchai »

Aeolun wrote: post #305
Bud wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's please not further the idea that it's acceptable to quote only downstream speed when citing Internet speeds. Doing that just leads to 20 more years of Comcast killing the concept of modern Internet service for Americans. Cite both numbers.

I consider only symmetric speeds real internet.

It's sad how difficult it is to get symmetric speeds in some parts of the US. Around here, the cable company was actually lowering upstream speeds for some users. They raised their downstream though. This was an attempt to encourage them to upgrade to DOCSIS 3.1, I think. Once enough users upgrade they can start doing fancier stuff, like allocating more upstream channels. Maybe by 2030.

Re: 25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

#312

Post by icedchai »

walrus01 wrote: post #251
nixgeek wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in PNW the service isn’t 900/40 any more, it’s advertised as “1.2Gbps” and the profile actually seems to be 20% over that, I’ve seen 1.5Gbps or 170-180MB/sec downstream performance recently. Upstream is still <= 50Mbps and otherwise agree with your comment that the U.S. is falling behind in price-throughput on domestic internet services versus many other developed nations.

Upstream on cable like that will be sub 50 Mbps because they're very intentionally only using a small number of rf channels on the coax for upstream. This is why in my opinion docsis3 is putting lipstick on a pig and is only a short term stop gap solution. The better end state is proper SM fiber to each house.

Yep, even DOCSIS 3.1 modems don't do much for upstream, since generally it remains at 3.0. They have to do physical upgrades, such as amplifier swaps, to actually add more channels and make DOCSIS 3.1 OFDM upstream possible. That seems like years of work, and won't happen any time soon.

Re: 25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

#313

Post by selfhoster11 »

dijit wrote: post #37
ianai wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The machine's clearly massive overkill for routing. Another commenter points out it typically runs around 50w - and the OP says they're also using it as a server in this thread.

FWIW: raspberry pis (the 4 series) sucks in 15w which is why it’s so bloody difficult to power them through standard USB power adapters (which go up to 12w). So, not hundreds of times more power hungry, but definitely 2-3x

As another commenter already pointed out, this is peak power consumption. A Pi + external HDD runs me to 12 W max in live use. Less if the drive spins down.

Re: 25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

#314

Post by gonesilent »

bcrl wrote: post #165
tomnipotent wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SFP requires less energy than RJ45, only 0.7W/port. The MikroTik 4-port CRS305-1G-4S+IN draws 10-18W.

That's not entirely true. SFP power consumption depends on the type of SFP. A 10Gbps DWDM SFP+ might draw 1.8W of power. The why for this is actually quite interesting: the lasers used in DWDM SFPs have much more stringent requirements for temperature stability to ensure the light emitted doesn't drift out of spec. In order to achieve that temperature stability, they use a built in peltier to pump heat away from the…

It's also a real laser versus a many sfp+ gbics being LED light source now

Re: 25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

#315

Post by bronco21016 »

jiggawatts wrote: post #297
iforgotpassword wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I can unfortunately confirm this. Don't know how much has changed, but about a year ago my current employer evaluated about 10 desktop pcs from dell, lenovo, hp and the likes as all staff was supposed to get new machines. One of the important criteria was power consumption. The few AMD systems that were among the contestants had absolutely ridiculous idle consumption and weren't even considered any further.

Using local retail electricity prices, the idle power draw of 20-40W for the AMD CPUs comes out to $20-$40 per annum. If THAT breaks the bank, run screaming from your workplace as fast as you possibly can. The bean counters can't count, and they're being penny wise and pound foolish in the worst possible way. AMD CPUs run circles around anything Intel makes. Total performance, performance per core, price/performance,…

Don’t we need far more information before going off like this?

Off the top of my head I’d want to know how many workstations and typical workload.

Many offices are hundreds of workstations, mostly idling, and simply navigating multiple different SaaS Web Apps. In that case the primary metrics would seem to be price/performance (don’t need much performance) and idle power consumption.

I love the new AMD processors and they’re fantastic for heavy workloads. I’m thinking Intel is still well in the equation though when it comes to a typical workstation in an office.

Re: 25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

#316

Post by tomnipotent »

lostlogin wrote: post #225
logifail wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MikroTik 4-port CRS305-1G-4S+IN I have two of these at home, they're neat little bits of kit. They're fanless and therefore silent, which is fine until you realise you want to do 10GbE over existing copper cables with something like Mikrotik's S+RJ10 adapter. Then the temps start to rise... So, I've decided to go completely to fibre, even if it means opening up the walls of the house. Just bought a job lot of used…

> ConnectX-3 cards off ebay. Those cards are so good. I got a few after seeing them rated in r/homelab and haven’t looked back. The Synology took one and it was about 1/10th the price the official Synology one was.

> Those cards are so good

Agreed. You can find them on eBay for ~$40 a pop, and they work flawlessly on Linux and Windows. I've made a few purchases from the seller "bitsquad" (ships from Kentucky), and he always seems to have Mellanox/Chelsio in stock.

Re: 25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

#317

Post by jiggawatts »

bronco21016 wrote: post #315
jiggawatts wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using local retail electricity prices, the idle power draw of 20-40W for the AMD CPUs comes out to $20-$40 per annum. If THAT breaks the bank, run screaming from your workplace as fast as you possibly can. The bean counters can't count, and they're being penny wise and pound foolish in the worst possible way. AMD CPUs run circles around anything Intel makes. Total performance, performance per core, price/performance,…

Don’t we need far more information before going off like this? Off the top of my head I’d want to know how many workstations and typical workload. Many offices are hundreds of workstations, mostly idling, and simply navigating multiple different SaaS Web Apps. In that case the primary metrics would seem to be price/performance (don’t need much performance) and idle power consumption. I love the new AMD processors and…

> I’d want to know how many workstations and typical workload.

That sounds like: "Sure, we make a loss on every unit sold, but we'll make up for that with volume!"

If one workstation is better, a hundred workstations is a hundred times better.

> I’m thinking Intel is still well in the equation though when it comes to a typical workstation in an office.

Are they though? My "typical office applications" experience is that thanks to Electron they've become absolutely glacial, and better CPUs make a very noticeable difference even to ordinary staff. People rant and rave about how good the Apple M1 chips are for typical "productivity apps", which is directly comparable to the advantage AMD has over Intel.

As a random example of this, our virtual desktops in Azure are Intel-based. They're frustratingly slow. Switching them over to a largely identical AMD instance makes them instantly snappier and very usable.

PS: I had the opposite experience a decade ago with Citrix XenApp terminal servers. At the time, a few of our customers tried to save money by using inferior-but-cheaper AMD CPUs. Those servers were glacially slow, and there was nothing we could do to fix it.

Re: 25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

#318

Post by insulanus »

j1elo wrote: post #4

I'm always amazed by people who don't bat an eye on the perspective of having a home server, sucking up electricity 24/7. In this case replacing a typical router (which consumes like a lightbulb), with a full-fledged PC (probably consuming like x100 the power). I guess some people around the world have quite cheap utility bills! For me, it's either a Raspberry Pi type of power consumption, or else a server that only…

A Netgear Nighthawk R7000 idles at 8W, max 34W. That will get you 1 Gigabit.

Bleeding edge CPUs from Intel and AMD do guzzle power when run at full load, but they also improve in power per IPS, and have added dynamic underclocking, so they also run

Compare the TDP of a Pentium 4 from 2000 to a Ryzen 5 3600 or an i7 7700K (These TDPs are supposedly max power output, but take them with a nugget of salt)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CPU_power_dissipation_...

Gotta update that power intuition!

Re: 25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

#319

Post by pabs3 »

ksec wrote: post #267

The most surprising details was [1] from init7. >Compatibility requirements There is no obligation on you to procure the hardware through us, and the hardware shown here is not the only possible hardware for you to use. There are also other compatible products, as long as the requisite «bi-di» fibre optic technology conforms to the following specifications (recommended: Flexoptix, more router information): No Modem /…

A lot of fibre is GPON (a type of PON, passive optical network), a scheme where each customer receives data from multiple other customers as well as their own data, so it would be very insecure for them to allow customers to use their own ONT. If you can get AON (active optical networking), then likely they will allow BYO ONT. Note that AON requires more hardware that is more expensive on the ISP side.

Re: 25 Gigabit Linux internet router PC build

#320

Post by 542458 »

sponaugle wrote: post #184
tibbon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve got a handful of computers running in a rack at home. Their total power? Around 400w. I also have a dehumidifier running all the time in the basement. It’s power usage is 500w. No one bats and eye at a heater or dehumidifier, but a computer and people get worried

I agree with your sentiment. It is interesting to look at total power usage and power usage by device. I'm using IotaWatts to monitor every individual circuit in my house (over 200 of them), and it is easy to miss things that add up. With computers it is quite amazing the difference in power load based on cpu/disk load. When I run my PI calculator (which not only pegs CPU, but hits my SAN very hard) I see over a 1kw…

Sorry, your house has 200 circuits? Is every outlet on its own circuit or something? Maybe I’m biased because my house is old, but I’ve never heard of having that much copper in the walls.
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