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Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

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Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#241

Post by dennisgorelik »

hinkley wrote: post #126
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> Your non-techie peers just don’t get it, no matter how many times you try to make them understand. We really need to get past this smug idea that tech work is uniquely difficult in a way that no one else can understand. Any deep work suffers from interruptions, and programming isn't the only type of work that has significant mental context. This idea that programmers are uniquely vulnerable does no favors when tryi…

> We really need to get past this smug idea that tech work is uniquely difficult in a way that no one else can understand. When you think what you do is special, you will only look to other 'special' people for solutions to your problems. If you understand that many disciplines have the same problems, you can crib ideas from them. It's a major reason I push people to have extracurriculars. Most of my crisis managemen…

> We don't want to debate the relative importance of these two tasks. If we do then the interrupter wins

You, probably, meant that "you lose [your current task mental context]".

The interrupter will not necessarily win from your loss.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#242

Post by james-skemp »

the_other wrote: post #234
james-skemp wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you recall the name of it? Starting a new job and that may finally be enough of a change to trigger me actually trying this after all these years of hearing about it.

Vitamin-R. It was Mac only, I think.

Thanks for the reply!

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#243

Post by barry27 »

barry27 wrote: post #214
barry27 wrote: post #68

I'm bored of this whiny prima donna fallacy that interrupting a programmer is worse than interrupting anybody else.

wtf i got downvoted for this? that's the final straw. fuck all of you HN wankers. so far up your own arses.

and this too! glorious, hit me again you fucks. let's see if someone can have negative reputation on this bullshit site.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#244

Post by dgeiser13 »

thayne wrote: post #162
eggy wrote: post #52

I have been programming since 1977/78, and sometimes for work, but most of the time for fun. As someone who does technical work at heights with rope access, and many years of technical diving on hydraulics, pneumatic, and electrical equipment, I can say it all depends on your ability to shut out interruptions and get to a good stopping point. I get frustrated when I am programming and I am interrupted, but my most fr…

Yes, I think it applies to any technical work, not just coding.

I think it would be unfair to limit it to technical work. I think people who excel in any "think heavy" work would prefer not to be interrupted while they think. Not all "think heavy" work is technical.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#245

Post by thr0w__4w4y »

easygenes wrote: post #202
dagurp wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airline pilots have a very high workload when landing and it requires intense focus starting about 30 minute before. They are not allowed to talk about anything unrelated in that period.

Yup, and you can be very grateful for their decisions in that period as well. The most hairy flight I’ve been on involved trying to land in Kampala in the midst of a terrible thunderstorm. Turbulence like I’d never felt before (after hundreds of flights). A hushed stillness in the cabin, people grabbing their loved ones. From the amount of time you’ve been descending and the feeling of the flight you know you’re on f…

Yes I've been in that situation (as a passenger, not a pilot!) Incredible how much power the aircraft has at full throttle. A lot of people freak out or panic in that situation, because it's so abrupt, but it's a sign that the pilot(s) are trying to go from a very dangerous/tricky situation to a much safer scenario. For me, the situation was a horrific and violent summer thunderstorm in Dallas. But the pilots handled it and we landed safely the 2nd time.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#246

Post by ideamotor »

the_other wrote: post #234
james-skemp wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you recall the name of it? Starting a new job and that may finally be enough of a change to trigger me actually trying this after all these years of hearing about it.

Vitamin-R. It was Mac only, I think.

Thanks

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#247

Post by ideamotor »

abnercoimbre wrote: post #173
ideamotor wrote: post #167

Interruptions are very challenging with any deep work that takes hours. This is true. What I am facing however, is a related issue. Perhaps because I have not been doing much programming lately, I find it increasingly difficult to actually get and be in the zone. When I go in, I go all in, and enter a kind of fugue state where the hours slip away. While for some this may sound advantageous, in the past, it has been a…

Are you saying getting into that "in the zone" state affected your mental health. Interesting. Any examples of the side effects? Is it hard to put into words?

No it was from being in the zone, which eventually caused me anxiety about doing it. I would spend 10-12 hours getting a major project done, barely taking a break. Wrist issues, back issues, and a kind of agoraphobia afterwards if I was in too long that accumulated with lack of sleep as well.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#248

Post by titzer »

lamontcg wrote: post #237
titzer wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the most annoying question in the world. But this is exactly the information that other people need to plan around to get on with their own work. You need to see things from their perspective. The inner workings of your processes and the long-winded explanation, from their side, is "the most annoying" response in the world. It's a simple question. The ETA is the only information that is actionable for them.…

You can't triage the unknown

Triage involves getting insight into running systems, particularly how well they are performing, or not performing, at many levels of granularity. You can make the act of triaging more efficient by building tools that give you quick insight and help you narrow down what is and isn't working, and how it's failing.

I spent years working on V8 and we consistently invested in tools, tests, processes, and best practices to help us fielding the thousands of production issues over the years.

Again, I don't know anything about your system, but my advice would be to be more serious and diligent about the requests you field instead of treating them as annoyances. Take a look at your processes and dispassionately try to figure out why it takes you so long to know anything about anything.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#249

Post by Doxin »

SamBam wrote: post #102

> Now, tell him to add those numbers in his head. He can look at the screen and talk/whisper/mutter to himself, but he can’t write anything down and he can’t type anything. "Why can't I write anything down?" "Because when I'm seven to ten levels deep in a stack of issues, I never write anything down, I need to keep it all in my head ." "But why?" "Well... I have a whole mental model constructed. I couldn't possibly w…

I feel like a large problem is that serializing mental state when programming is incredibly lossy and slow. Doing a serialize-deserialize cycle to paper is going to take me a lot longer than just trying to figure it out from the code I already wrote while solving the problem.

I do take notes, but it's almost invariably simple stuff like todo items or row IDs I'll need for a lookup.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#250

Post by eggy »

mrburkins wrote: post #238
eggy wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I've been torn about a private vs. public life. I have always enjoyed the immediacy of the moment in life having lost friends while still in my teens. I am very tech savvy, and I love GoPros and smartphones for what they are, but I rarely film or photo myself. I do journal, so perhaps when I stop playing around, I'll try writing a book for my children.

Please do. Having lost my dad somewhat unexpectedly I would have loved something like this. I have 2 kids now and think besides financial security, journals, letters etc might be one of the most valuable things I could give them. That way they know me whether I’m here to tell them or not

Yes, it would be a primary motivation for me to memorialize my life for my children. It's tough losing a parent; my condolences on your father's passing. A friend I've known for 39 years is currently dying of ALS. It's crazy how fast it is taking him. He was just rennovating a house a year ago. He started a second family before being diagnosed, and he has a three year old. I remembered the Michael Keaton movie, My Life, where he makes videos of a bunch of things to teach his child when he is gone. I am horrible at the whole photo/video thing of myself. I guess it's the focus of being in the moment, and not sufficiently planning for it, so I am grateful my wife takes photos and videos once and a while with me in them.
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