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“One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

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Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#51

Post by cycomanic »

LegitShady wrote: post #36
krapp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk is a grown man, not a child, and he should be capable of tact and self control. "He started it" is not a valid excuse for his public, slanderous little temper tantrum.

capable != required If he seriously proposes to help and is told to stick it where he hurts, he can choose whether or not to respond with 'tact and self control' but he isn't required to. The diver is the one without tact and self control, but you slag elon for responding in kind instead of the diver. You expect more from musk but musk owes you nothing - not even tact. He doesn't have to accept abuse from someone els…

If someone is derailing an important rescue, by making useless suggestions to please his own ego, what in your view is the appropriate response.

What in your opinion should we say to spectators at accidents you hinder the rescue workers, by e.g.stanfing next to them and giving advice?

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#53

Post by lilSebastian »

arcticbull wrote: post #42
lilSebastian wrote: post #25

[flagged]

Yea haha I was going to remind folks of that too. Elon was building a submarine that everyone involved told him was a terrible idea and to please leave them alone because he was hampering the effort, and Elon responded by calling one of the lead rescuers a “pedo guy” and got sued over it. I believe his defense was that “pedo guy” was a common insult in South Africa. Simpler times haha.

Simpler times... 3 years ago...

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#55

Post by hef19898 »

busterarm wrote: post #44
hef19898 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the Tucker defence!

Correction, the Rachel Maddow defense. You have to pick the person to use it first.

From the law suite: A reasonable viewer would not actually think OAN is paid Russian propaganda, instead, he or she would follow the facts of the Daily Beast article; that OAN and Sputnik share a reporter and both pay this reporter to write articles,” Bashant wrote. “Anything beyond this is Maddow’s opinion or her exaggeration of the facts.”

Source: Variety

Reads different from the Tucker defence:

A federal judge on Thursday dismissed a lawsuit against Fox News after lawyers for the network argued that no "reasonable viewer" would take the network's primetime star Tucker Carlson seriously.

Source: Business Insider

Saying some opinion wouldn't be take. serious is very different from saying the person having thay opinion wouldn't be taken serious.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#56

Post by bambax »

arcticbull wrote: post #42
lilSebastian wrote: post #25

[flagged]

Yea haha I was going to remind folks of that too. Elon was building a submarine that everyone involved told him was a terrible idea and to please leave them alone because he was hampering the effort, and Elon responded by calling one of the lead rescuers a “pedo guy” and got sued over it. I believe his defense was that “pedo guy” was a common insult in South Africa. Simpler times haha.

Musk showed his true character.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#57

Post by LegitShady »

cycomanic wrote: post #51
LegitShady wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

capable != required If he seriously proposes to help and is told to stick it where he hurts, he can choose whether or not to respond with 'tact and self control' but he isn't required to. The diver is the one without tact and self control, but you slag elon for responding in kind instead of the diver. You expect more from musk but musk owes you nothing - not even tact. He doesn't have to accept abuse from someone els…

If someone is derailing an important rescue, by making useless suggestions to please his own ego, what in your view is the appropriate response. What in your opinion should we say to spectators at accidents you hinder the rescue workers, by e.g.stanfing next to them and giving advice?

The question is the tone - this person was rude first, and got a rude reply, and the fixation is on the rude reply rather than the one that set the tone.

The tangent about 'hindering rescue workers' has nothing to do with reality. they were exchanging messages on twitter - it's nonsense to equate that to anything like you are.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#58

Post by 34679 »

mongol wrote: post #10
chha wrote: post #8

There is a couple of other stories that comes to mind, unfortunately both of them were about recovering the dead. "Raising the Dead" is about the accidental discovery of a diver in SA, and the recovery efforts there. [1] "The cave divers who went back for their friends" is about a trio of finns who went back into a Norwegian underwater cave system to recover two friends who got stuck and died there. [2] [1] - https:/…

There is a great documentary about the Finnish cave divers. "Diving into the unknown": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_into_the_Unknown "Last breath" is also a really good documentary about rescue under water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Breath_(2019_film) Both of these I rate 5/5

I'm just going to toss this here because I really enjoyed the audiobook:

Shadow Divers - The True Adventure of Two Americans Who Risked Everything to Solve One of the Last Mysteries of World War II

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Divers

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#59

Post by McDyver »

janci wrote: post #47

I still don't get it. The tunnels were too narrow near the ceilling, but wide near the floor. The divers could not keep at the floor because they could not navigate due to zero visibility, zero communication and no tether points. Would not a sonar help? A full spacesuit-like helmet with air to be able to talk via radio? Laying down some flexible tunnels that could be inflated with air or maybe just pumped with clear…

A sonar wouldn't help in such a pressing situation. The sonar would only provide a map that would still need to be interpreted, and wouldn't solve the actual problem of transporting the boys.

Those "helmets" exist, but helmets as such are used in commercial diving with a tether to the diver. Not very practical to have it running along the cave for multiple divers. The full face masks that allow that are mainly used in open circuit diving and are bulky. I don't know if the pros/cons would make a huge difference.

At one point I believe Tesla or just Musk were planning and developing a pod to carry each boy, but the tunnels and sumps were so narrow that they wouldn't be able to make the turns.

Having tunnels with compressed air to inflate them would have similar issues with the bends. Not to mention the amount of gas and pressure needed to displace all that water.

I guess they took the most direct and logistically available option. I'm sure it will be a case study for the future.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#60

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

fab1an wrote: post #45

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

When Musk first appeared I was hugely supportive. Definitely a fan of what he was doing both with SpaceX and Tesla.

I'm still a fan of what those companies are doing but Elon has destroyed my view of him with his own behavior and words. We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs pretending it's one lone genius. Tom Mueller in particular deserves far more credit.

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