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Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

bbc.com

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Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#91

Post by GuB-42 »

tboyd47 wrote: post #20

There aren’t any measurable elements of personality that are fixed. Personality changes as you age. I’ve witnessed a reversal in each of the Myers-Briggs markers in the past 15 years (from INTJ to ESFP) — not intentionally, but that’s just the way my life played out. I’ve come to see the truth of the matter like this: every human being has a need for socializing, but it takes effort and is exhausting. The amount of e…

I don't think personality changes that much.

People can get more social skills as they age, regardless of their personality, and it may appear as extraversion, but I don't think of it as a core change. You don't have to enjoy socializing to do it, just like you don't need to love your job to be good at it. Introverts with good social skills simply do the necessary amount of socialization to fulfill their needs the go back into their head once their are done.

But while people mature, get new hobbies, get jobs, become parents, etc... Barring extreme situation, their core personality tends to stay the same, they just transfer. For example, an online game addict may end up getting out a lot more and vice versa, but online or outside, if they are extraverts, they will tend to have a lot of social interactions. It is usually apparent when people lose self control.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#92

Post by archsurface »

Angostura wrote: post #41
archsurface wrote: post #14

BBC attempting to sway/nudge/gaslight, as usual. Firstly, it wasn't a lockdown, that's just the fear motive militaristic terminology they thought would achieve their goals - so much was open, and traffic congestion across cities daily, it could be called a slowdown or a partial shutdown, but "lockdown" is just transparent. The slowdown is the reason I haven't quit my current employer; my social life is just as crap a…

I've read this several times, but I'm nit actually clear what you are accusing the BBC or the government of. It's reasonable to call the first even from March 2020 a 'lockdown'. The rules in the UK were pretty clear - unless you are a keyworker don't leave your house apart from essential shopping or 1 hour of local excercise. Since then restrictions have been eased in what can probably best be described as partial lo…

How clear the rules are is irrelevant - they were theoretical, an occasional example made, but no one really gave a damn. If you followed those rules you're a gullible sucker, most people were in the parks drinking and socialising.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#94

Post by jasode »

kristofferR wrote: post #83
erikerikson wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels brutal and mean to read. It seems that you're telling me my feelings, preferences, and way of being are invalid. Not only that but that I deserve what I've experienced because I have not overlaid my sincere core with the model proposed to me. The world is often structured to heavily advantage highly social individuals. You're right that being less social or even asocial can bear a large accumulative cost.…

You seem overly attached to the label of being an introvert. The whole post is slightly confusing to me in fact. If you've concluded that other things than increasing social skills are more worthwhile pursuits for you in your life, then that's great. You do you. However, you can't then also complain in the next breath about what your lack of social skills, that you won't spend an effort acquiring, exclude you from. "…

>You seem overly attached to the label of being an introvert.

I didn't downvote your comments but as counterpoint, I think you and tboyd47 are too influenced by the idea that "introvert" is merely a label.

Yes, I understand the good intentions for stressing the "label isn't destiny!" -- because we always want people to improve.

That said, I'm an introvert because that's currently the best description of my stable traits. If you didn't know me, I would not look like an introvert to you because:

- I'm not shy.

- I don't have poor social skills.

- I'm not uncomfortable around people and do enjoy parties.

- I've given presentations to large audiences in Las Vegas

... however, I've always had an underlying preference for solitary activities over group gatherings. I've had this preference for as a long as I can remember even as a little boy. Even the later adult years of consulting work where I went out for drinks and dinner every night with buddies does not change that.

I actually noticed the pattern of solitary pursuits in my life first -- and then I later found the word "introvert" that matched it.

It's like being "right-handed" or "left-handed". I'm right-hand dominant and it's a stable trait that doesn't change even if I learn to type 'Q' and 'Z' a million times with my left hand on a QWERTY keyboard. The label "right-handed" didn't make me right-handed. And learning new skills with my left hand will improve my life but will still not change my internal right-handedness.

Going to more social parties does not train me to be less introverted. Instead, it actually reveals to me how introverted I truly am. Yes, I can laugh and make small talk with everyone -- but it doesn't change the underlying feeling that I'd rather be somewhere else.

If the word "introvert" is useless because some people think it's a changeable trait... then I don't know what alternative word to use to describe that unchanging stable preference that I've had all my life.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#96

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

kristofferR wrote: post #28
tboyd47 wrote: post #20

There aren’t any measurable elements of personality that are fixed. Personality changes as you age. I’ve witnessed a reversal in each of the Myers-Briggs markers in the past 15 years (from INTJ to ESFP) — not intentionally, but that’s just the way my life played out. I’ve come to see the truth of the matter like this: every human being has a need for socializing, but it takes effort and is exhausting. The amount of e…

Agree! One of the most harmful beliefs about the concept of intro-/extroversion is that it is something you are and not something you do. Many people limit themselves massively because of how they've labeled themselves. Especially in "strong introverts", the label is often used as a convenient excuse for not going through the often painful process of trying to improve their confidence skills and social skills. "I'm a…

You could just as well argue that "strong extroverts" are using a convenient excuse to avoid the painful process of not getting to know and appreciate themselves on their own terms.

It's certainly true - actually tautological - that introverts are missing social opportunities.

Is it impossible that extroverts are missing experiences of equivalent value?

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#97

Post by codingdave »

dannyw wrote: post #17
hirundo wrote: post #9

I'm a physically and socially isolated introvert in a rural county and have been working from home for a decade. About the only difference for me was the occasional need to put on a mask before walking in a store. My greatest inconvenience was very minor: I was turned away from a convenience store for not having a mask with me. Early in the lockdowns I made a trip to the closest big city for a dentist appointment and…

I'd like to hear more about your life experience - how much human contact do you have on a weekly basis?

I'm in the same boat - introverted and living in the country. I have tons of human contact because I have a family with whom I live. I spend most of my non-work time with them. I go out to stores, I go to church, I even see friends and extended family on occasion.

Frankly, I have very little difference in the amount of human contact I have now vs. what I did when I lived in a city before the pandemic.

Where you live can certainly influence how much contact there is in your life, but you can be surrounded by people in the country just as easily as you can be a hermit holed up in your apartment in the city.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#98

Post by herbst »

hirundo wrote: post #9

I'm a physically and socially isolated introvert in a rural county and have been working from home for a decade. About the only difference for me was the occasional need to put on a mask before walking in a store. My greatest inconvenience was very minor: I was turned away from a convenience store for not having a mask with me. Early in the lockdowns I made a trip to the closest big city for a dentist appointment and…

Same here. I live in a quiet house far away from everything in the middle of the Swiss Alps. I get the majority of my food from small farmer stalls around me. The most of other things I just order online. Except my partner the only real contact I have right now is my family I see maybe once a month. However they visit me as I don't really want drive down to a busy town. I have no work related contacts either as I life from my own projects.

Even when my partner is away for a few weeks I don't feel alone. I've spent months alone in Asia without feeling alone.

I feel really lucky today for being in this situation. Some people turned their life upside down and I just got more of the life that I always wanted.

Edit:// I forgot to mention that I indeed have friends and also did all the social things regularly 2 years ago. My point is that I often felt like I have to attend these social things and I actually don't miss them. Still chatting online from time to time.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#99

Post by fumar »

kristofferR wrote: post #28
tboyd47 wrote: post #20

There aren’t any measurable elements of personality that are fixed. Personality changes as you age. I’ve witnessed a reversal in each of the Myers-Briggs markers in the past 15 years (from INTJ to ESFP) — not intentionally, but that’s just the way my life played out. I’ve come to see the truth of the matter like this: every human being has a need for socializing, but it takes effort and is exhausting. The amount of e…

Agree! One of the most harmful beliefs about the concept of intro-/extroversion is that it is something you are and not something you do. Many people limit themselves massively because of how they've labeled themselves. Especially in "strong introverts", the label is often used as a convenient excuse for not going through the often painful process of trying to improve their confidence skills and social skills. "I'm a…

You are right people shouldn't be prescribed labels. You think people are limiting themselves because of labels. Isn't it the other way around? People act in such a way that they believe a label describes their personality or behavioral pattern?

I think you are the one mislabeling people. Being an introvert doesn't mean social skills are low. You might work with or be friends with strong introverts and have no idea.

There is also this idea that as an extrovert you have great social skills. I know plenty of people who crave social experiences, attention, or constant companionship that have poor social skills. You know them – they may say hurtful things, claim their own jokes as funny and laugh at them, disregard other people's feelings, lack the ability to control their vocalizations or comments, get in people's faces, create distractions, try to control conversations, etc. You get the point. Should those "strong extroverts" work hard at improving their social skills? Sometimes that means not talking or seeking solace in their own thoughts before entering a an existing social gathering.

Re: Introverts didn't 'win' lockdown

#100

Post by Tempest1981 »

dannyw wrote: post #23
Graffur wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an introvert but like being in the office. I don't like the commute though so will try to maximize WFH.

Same. The cost is the commute, but the benefit is a relatively nice office where I can focus, meeting rooms, healthy and delicious lunch, and opportunity to talk to my coworkers if I want to. I like being at home, but I also like not being at home. Even if I'm just working by myself.

> nice office where I can focus

A nice contrast to the frat-house bullpen of many offices. It's like trying to study for an exam while your roommates are having a party. "Oh, just wear headphones."

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