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Sri Lanka’s ancient, almost lost martial art

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Re: Sri Lanka’s ancient, almost lost martial art

#111

Post by roel_v »

dugmartin wrote: post #108
matwood wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually wouldn't change much at all. Every MMA fighter already instinctively protects their head which includes eyes. Finger locks are laughable in an actual a fight. I know a person who (I think stupidly), refused to tap to an ankle lock in a BJJ match, broke his ankle, but did win the fight. No finger lock was stopping him. I guess someone could try to kick someone's groin and maybe get one through. An MMA figh…

I think this is just dangerous thinking. A real street/bar fighter will head butt your nose and then while your hands go to your face trying to stem the fountain of blood will (if you are a guy) reach down and twist/crush or knee your testicles. The fight will be over in 10 seconds and no amount of knowledge learned on the mat is going to help. The real problem with martial arts is you really can’t train for real fig…

Oh please. It's 2021. There is an entire internet full of video clips of actual fights, and none of them go down the way you say. All this waflling about 'groin strikes' and 'head butts' is just that - arm chair waffling. Reality (as in, documented facts) has shown the people theorizing like this wrong .

Re: Sri Lanka’s ancient, almost lost martial art

#112

Post by propertymagnate »

7thaccount wrote: post #106
propertymagnate wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is a Chinese citizen that is a very mediocre MMA fighter who goes around and challenges so called "grand masters" to show how full of BS they are." This guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Xiaodong

I can't edit my original comment, but after re-reading it I hope it didn't come off like I was insulting the fighter. When I say "mediocre" I mean that despite MMA wins (very impressive by itself) I assume he's pretty far from ever being in the UFC. In other words, he represents a fairly average (maybe below average) MMA fighter, yet he was able to take out "master" after "master" in just seconds without any effort.…

I can't comment for others but I didn't read it that way. I just knew the context and thought people might want to read about it, because it is interesting. Thanks for bringing it up in the first place.

Re: Sri Lanka’s ancient, almost lost martial art

#113

Post by matwood »

dugmartin wrote: post #108
matwood wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually wouldn't change much at all. Every MMA fighter already instinctively protects their head which includes eyes. Finger locks are laughable in an actual a fight. I know a person who (I think stupidly), refused to tap to an ankle lock in a BJJ match, broke his ankle, but did win the fight. No finger lock was stopping him. I guess someone could try to kick someone's groin and maybe get one through. An MMA figh…

I think this is just dangerous thinking. A real street/bar fighter will head butt your nose and then while your hands go to your face trying to stem the fountain of blood will (if you are a guy) reach down and twist/crush or knee your testicles. The fight will be over in 10 seconds and no amount of knowledge learned on the mat is going to help. The real problem with martial arts is you really can’t train for real fig…

Most fights are chaotic and end up on the ground. I guess someone unprovoked could walk up to another random person and head butt them (why not just punch or elbow then?), but c'mon that's not how street/bar fights work. People posture for a bit, etc...by the time a fight starts it's not a surprise.

If we're going to go down the imaginary perfect situation, we're back to day 1 MMA/self defense lessons now. In a situation you control distance, either too far away to be hit or close enough for a take down. The fight is over in 10 seconds because the grappler has shot a double leg, put the other person on their back and is beating the crap out of them before the other person even knows what's happened. The grappler also has hundreds or thousands of fights that are about as close to reality as one can get.

As the other responder said, there are numerous videos out there now showing that grappling (MMA, BJJ, wrestling) sports are superior in any real life situation because that's how a large majority of real life situations go down.

This happened not long ago, and the football almost lost their eye...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70UcLUPvotU

> only real winner in a fight is the one that walks away before it starts.

I 100% agree. After training BJJ for years, I've learned never to underestimate anyone. It's a bit counter intuitive, but the more someone learns to fight, the less they want to fight (outside of training of course).

Re: Sri Lanka’s ancient, almost lost martial art

#114

Post by 7thaccount »

propertymagnate wrote: post #112
7thaccount wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't edit my original comment, but after re-reading it I hope it didn't come off like I was insulting the fighter. When I say "mediocre" I mean that despite MMA wins (very impressive by itself) I assume he's pretty far from ever being in the UFC. In other words, he represents a fairly average (maybe below average) MMA fighter, yet he was able to take out "master" after "master" in just seconds without any effort.…

I can't comment for others but I didn't read it that way. I just knew the context and thought people might want to read about it, because it is interesting. Thanks for bringing it up in the first place.

Not a problem. I didn't think you did, but wanted to be sure and your comment was a good place to add it. Thanks for linking to the fighter!

Re: Sri Lanka’s ancient, almost lost martial art

#115

Post by [deleted] »

matwood wrote: post #113
dugmartin wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is just dangerous thinking. A real street/bar fighter will head butt your nose and then while your hands go to your face trying to stem the fountain of blood will (if you are a guy) reach down and twist/crush or knee your testicles. The fight will be over in 10 seconds and no amount of knowledge learned on the mat is going to help. The real problem with martial arts is you really can’t train for real fig…

Most fights are chaotic and end up on the ground. I guess someone unprovoked could walk up to another random person and head butt them (why not just punch or elbow then?), but c'mon that's not how street/bar fights work. People posture for a bit, etc...by the time a fight starts it's not a surprise. If we're going to go down the imaginary perfect situation, we're back to day 1 MMA/self defense lessons now. In a situa…

[deleted]

Re: Sri Lanka’s ancient, almost lost martial art

#116

Post by austinjp »

matwood wrote: post #81
austinjp wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, MMA is a one-on-one sport, with all that entails. No multiple opponents, no small joint manipulation, no gouging, no biting, no spitting, no striking the neck or back of the head, no kicking the head of a downed opponent.... etc etc. All of which could happen in actual combat and non-sport fighting.

I'm not sure where you train MMA or BJJ, but where I train the self-defense aspect of various grappling techniques are always discussed. There's a reason that it's drilled from day 1 to keep hands inside protecting the head (whether on your feet, ground, or anywhere in between). Next is controlling the shoulders b/c then it's hard for someone to punch. Every grappler knows pulling guard in a real fight is dumb, with…

Hmmm, I think we're partly in agreement. I've also drilled multiple assailant stuff too, although rarely.

My point was more about MMA not being the pinnacle of fighting. There's much that an MMA fighter would never learn. But this isn't a criticism, it's just a reality. There's no such thing as the "perfect" fighting style.

Incidentally, the reason for banning small joint manipulation is the same reason for banning ballistic joint strikes: avoiding serious injury. I'm certainly not suggesting that breaking someone's finger in a competitive fight would stop them. However, in a mugging/rape situation, breaking fingers and gouging eyes would absolutely be on the cards.

Having said all that, I'd most definitely recommend a good MMA class to someone interested in self-defence. I'd probably suggest augmenting it with classes at a good club that has some element of street awareness, or whatever is appropriate to the local context. That might be mugging awareness and avoidance, or what have you

Re: Sri Lanka’s ancient, almost lost martial art

#117

Post by austinjp »

roel_v wrote: post #111
dugmartin wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is just dangerous thinking. A real street/bar fighter will head butt your nose and then while your hands go to your face trying to stem the fountain of blood will (if you are a guy) reach down and twist/crush or knee your testicles. The fight will be over in 10 seconds and no amount of knowledge learned on the mat is going to help. The real problem with martial arts is you really can’t train for real fig…

Oh please. It's 2021. There is an entire internet full of video clips of actual fights, and none of them go down the way you say. All this waflling about 'groin strikes' and 'head butts' is just that - arm chair waffling. Reality (as in, documented facts) has shown the people theorizing like this wrong .

Erm.... I've literally seen fights start and end with one headbutt.

I'd suggest there's a bit of us all "talking past reach other".

I have no doubt that anyone who thinks they can end a fight by a headbutt, finger break, or groin kick without learning to trade punches and kicks and to grapple, would be in serious trouble. I'd also say that anyone training only sporting, rule-governed elements of fighting is in a great position compared to someone who has zero experience, but will encounter some very unexpected situations when a bar brawl kicks off.

So how about this: we're all right and wrong in some measures, depending on the context? :)

(Edit: typo)

Re: Sri Lanka’s ancient, almost lost martial art

#118

Post by austinjp »

roel_v wrote: post #65
austinjp wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, MMA is a one-on-one sport, with all that entails. No multiple opponents, no small joint manipulation, no gouging, no biting, no spitting, no striking the neck or back of the head, no kicking the head of a downed opponent.... etc etc. All of which could happen in actual combat and non-sport fighting.

Ah yes, the true and tried "my martial art is too deadly to be tested" argument.

Um... that wasn't my point at all...?

Re: Sri Lanka’s ancient, almost lost martial art

#119

Post by austinjp »

rasz wrote: post #105
austinjp wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, MMA is a one-on-one sport, with all that entails. No multiple opponents, no small joint manipulation, no gouging, no biting, no spitting, no striking the neck or back of the head, no kicking the head of a downed opponent.... etc etc. All of which could happen in actual combat and non-sport fighting.

those are the guys training in mma gyms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HtnV2M1pAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z--ZO3fuhz0

That looks fun :) Although from what I can see from a little Googling, these guys might be more street-fighters than MMA players. Some cross-over, I'm sure. My Polish isn't good enough to tell.

I'd like to see what difference some decent strategic training would make in those fights.

There are quite a few team combat fights on YouTube now, often staged in Poland and Russia, from what I can see. Most seem to be groups of one-v-one, rather than mass melée.

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