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“Cat Person” and Me

slate.com

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Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#61

Post by prvc »

slg wrote: post #59
d110af5ccf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify - if someone wrote a fictional autobiography whose subject was obviously you, would that not bother you? I would certainly be bothered if a close friend or family member did that to me in a manner that could ever lead strangers back to me. Nor would I ever publish such a piece about one of my acquaintances without their permission. I find the notion that such behavior could be socially acceptable quit…

I am guessing you aren't a fan of Citizen Kane. Or how about stories that even bill themselves as based on real events like Accidental Billionaires/The Social Network? Those must be even worse if they bill themselves as the truth. Could you imagine if most people judged your personality off made up dialogue and stories told by someone who was suing you for billions of dollars?

>I am guessing you aren't a fan of Citizen Kane.

William Randolph Hearst certainly wasn't one!

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#62

Post by [deleted] »

prvc wrote: post #39
caslon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there a villain, though? A creepy internet stalker writes a story about her stalkee's life, monetizes it and gets critical acclaim (and, again, a seven-figure advance for a collection of short stories that only had value due to that story ) for it, causing her strife? I can't help but feel that there's a clear villain here, and a villain that's trying to paint herself as the victim at that.

A superficial appraisal of the situation would have Cat Person be a mere amalgam of details plagiarized from social media with an ideologically derived ersatz-archetype-- a lie bolstered by purloined facts. This article, however, brings for the first time depth and truth to the former text. Flaubert famously quipped, "Madame Bovary, c'est moi!". In the same vein, the ugly side of Cat Person 's male character may not…

[deleted]

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#63

Post by valyagolev »

The worst part is starting to believe in the stranger's outlook on things in one's life. Infatuation with "universal" and "objective" will turn any tenderness you were surprised by into unambiguous creepiness in the eyes of the people you allow judging it

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#64

Post by whatshisface »

tptacek wrote: post #46
prvc wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All true your honor, but I said the word fiction beforehand!"

If what you said ran in the fiction section of the New Yorker , that would indeed be a very strong defense against a defamation claim.

Curiously, not as strong as one might think.

"Judge Robert D. Sack of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, author of the defamation treatise, Sack on Defamation: Libel, Slander and Related Problems, describes when a libel suit might result from a work of fiction:

“Where the defendant invents defamatory dialogue or other defamatory details in what purports to be nonfiction, uses actual people as fictional characters, or bases fictional characters on living persons but fails sufficiently to disguise the characters, so that the fictional characters are understood to be ‘of and concerning’ their living models, liability for libel may result.”" (emphasis added)

https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/first-amendment-center...

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#65

Post by whatshisface »

tptacek wrote: post #38
refulgentis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, I can see it from that perspective. I find it somewhat zen in that it then becomes befuddling the author of this article injected herself into the Cat Person author's story...I do then give up & weep for the poor girl whose life this was who needs to be told she has no business injecting herself via a story about the story someone wrote about her life, this line of argument is far too meta for me for mi…

Do you weep for every member of John Updike's family? The same stuff happened to them! The reality is, you don't; you never once thought about how Updike used his own relationships and those of his family and acquaintances as fodder. You care about this particular story for reasons other than principles. That's fine, but we should start by being honest about it.

I'm not sure what inconsistency you're pointing out; if I was related to John Updike I would not be happy if I ended up as a villain in one of his books. Wouldn't anyone not enjoy that?

As a relatively famous silicon valley person, it might actually happen to you some day, and although it would probably never happen to me I can imagine empathizing with you if you ever ended up as the bad guy in a short story.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#66

Post by tptacek »

whatshisface wrote: post #64
tptacek wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you said ran in the fiction section of the New Yorker , that would indeed be a very strong defense against a defamation claim.

Curiously, not as strong as one might think. "Judge Robert D. Sack of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, author of the defamation treatise, Sack on Defamation: Libel, Slander and Related Problems, describes when a libel suit might result from a work of fiction: “Where the defendant invents defamatory dialogue or other defamatory details in what purports to be nonfiction, uses actual people as fictional characters…

The link you've provided is interesting, but the gist of it is that it's very unlikely that you can successfully sue someone for basing a fictional story off of you; you might be able to drag them into court, but the case is difficult to win.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#67

Post by ceilingcorner »

I just read the original article after reading this link.

This situation is a perfect microcosm of how the media / contemporary culture at large will take a very human situation with complex personalities and shape it to fit the ideological narrative. The actual story (this link) is nuanced and filled with insights on modern dating culture, while the semifictional New Yorker piece is pretty one-dimensional.

As far as I’m concerned, the only villain here is the author of Cat Person. She apparently got a million dollar book deal out of it, while Charles had his reputation ruined and “died suddenly” which sounds like code for suicide to me. The author of this Slate article even seems to be gaslighting herself into thinking the fictional piece was more true than her real experience.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#68

Post by tptacek »

whatshisface wrote: post #65
tptacek wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you weep for every member of John Updike's family? The same stuff happened to them! The reality is, you don't; you never once thought about how Updike used his own relationships and those of his family and acquaintances as fodder. You care about this particular story for reasons other than principles. That's fine, but we should start by being honest about it.

I'm not sure what inconsistency you're pointing out; if I was related to John Updike I would not be happy if I ended up as a villain in one of his books. Wouldn't anyone not enjoy that? As a relatively famous silicon valley person, it might actually happen to you some day, and although it would probably never happen to me I can imagine empathizing with you if you ever ended up as the bad guy in a short story.

I assume whomever bases a fictional character after me will at least get the detail right that I live in Chicago, not Silicon Valley.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#69

Post by sdwr »

prvc wrote: post #39
caslon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there a villain, though? A creepy internet stalker writes a story about her stalkee's life, monetizes it and gets critical acclaim (and, again, a seven-figure advance for a collection of short stories that only had value due to that story ) for it, causing her strife? I can't help but feel that there's a clear villain here, and a villain that's trying to paint herself as the victim at that.

A superficial appraisal of the situation would have Cat Person be a mere amalgam of details plagiarized from social media with an ideologically derived ersatz-archetype-- a lie bolstered by purloined facts. This article, however, brings for the first time depth and truth to the former text. Flaubert famously quipped, "Madame Bovary, c'est moi!". In the same vein, the ugly side of Cat Person 's male character may not…

https://www.bulwer-lytton.com/

What are you trying to say? This comment made me the most upset×angry I've ever been on HN. Feels like an abuse of language.

Re: “Cat Person” and Me

#70

Post by ceilingcorner »

tptacek wrote: post #31
Firebrand wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a story about Charles the software developer, who lives in Chicago, being a horrible, predatory romantic partner. Not trying to imply that you are one of course, but that’s about as much detail she changed from the real life story—just the names. And now it was so successful that there’s going to be made about it starring Cousin Greg from HBO’s Succession. People love to gossip and will eventually put two and…

She didn't change "just the names". As the Slate article observes, she changes half the story . That's what people are mad about: that her work of fiction is mostly fictional.

If I wrote a story about ptkecat, accurately included most of the broad details about your life, but then inserted some fictional ones that portrayed you as a lying, manipulative person, would you consider that to be fictional? Would you be unjustified in being angry about it?
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