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Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

arstechnica.com

41–50 of 153 posts

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#41

I did something like this with Dota2 where I'd have it monitor the opposing team to save their locations when they appeared on the minimap in a shaded color on a 2nd monitor on that 2nd computer. I used an HDMI splitter and HDMI capture card to send the input to the second computer. I did the CV stuff with opencv library. Taking it a step further as shown in the article could be done to do stuff like auto creep killi…

The meta game of “cheating” sounds way more fun to me than playing any of these games.

Dota 2 is probably the most complex game I've ever personally played. It takes hundreds of hours of play just to learn the basics of the rules. There are over a hundred distinct hero characters to play, each with mostly unique skills. At a few hours per hero just to learn the essentials, it can be upwards of 500 hours before you even have a good idea of what's going on. Getting a feel for the overall flow of the game, where to be and where not to be, etc... can take thousands of hours.

There is no sport and few other pre-computer competitive games that even approach this level of depth and complexity.

But speaking of playing the meta-game more than the game, I had a ton of fun making a "hero picker".

At the beginning of each match there's a mini-game where each of the ten players gets to choose their hero out of the available pool of 119. Some heroes combo well others on their own team, and others counter the enemy choices well. This leads to an explosion of possibilities, with something like 4e20 possible distinct combinations, so choosing well is... difficult.

I downloaded the outcome of 30 million games (just a few days' worth!) and tried a bunch of ML/AI algorithms to come up with an optimal hero picker: Given 'n' current picks, choose the best hero for the nest pick.

That produced high win rates but boring games: it just picked the overall strongest characters with very little variance.

I then tried to make it pick the hero with the highest differential win rate. That is, it would sometimes recommend a hero that would decrease your chance of winning, but increase your chance for that hero relative to other games. This would give the opportunity to play weak heroes in games that suited them best.

That was okay, but still not optimal, because it used the win rates from very bad players.

I then took my 30M games, and produced an automatic chess-style ranking for all players. I threw away all "weird" games and players only seen a few times, giving me a clean learning set of regular players with a known skill set. I then filtered it to my personal ID number +/- a 10% skill range (still millions of games!) and trained the ML on that, hoping to give optimal recommendations for my own skill set.

That was a good try, but it turned out that people in my skill range are terrible at the meta-game of picking heroes.

I then threw up my hands and simply had the ML train on the top 10% of players. That was amazing! It was like having the knowledge of the best players distilled into an AI. It recommended some amazing combos, and generally stopped recommending heroes that are strong in the mid-tier "pub" games but weak against skilled opponents. My skill went up, and I slowly climbed the ranks to about the top 20% or so.

Fun times, fun times...

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#42
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's currently impossible to detect. I think it would be possible to detect if you used some kind of player profile where you characterized how a player moved and then were able to determine through a replay whether the profiles matched. However then you could program the cheat AI to mimic the real player etc, etc. But this would take several evolutions where each tech would be ahead of the other.

I think you are spot on: statistical player profiling + controlled environment testing is the good and potentially permanent solution to this problem. In my vision every game creates a model of your behavior/capabilities (server-side). For example, in a fps game it could consider your reaction times, overshoot distance on quick movements, look-around frequency, movement patterns, etc.. When you reach certain level yo…

And then I open my verification center where subtle cheating is okay.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#43
post #27

I played competitive level Quake 3/Quake Live for a number of years, during the height of its popularity. I also have friends who play more modern competitive FPS games, such as CS:GO. Even though QL was only a small online scene, the use aimbots, triggerbots, wallhacks, and similar tools was always very common at the competitive level. Quake Live had very limited anti-cheat functionality, so it was never relied upon…

I side with you. Also being a pro-gamer in RTS years ago, I can relate. There are many small steps between n00b level and mastery and a lot has to come together to be at expert level in gaming. Usually experts can play in variable settings, cheaters only in one particular. Experts can adapt, while cheaters usually not. Usually real talk about how you handled and interpreted a certain situation will show the differenc…

Cheating in video games is nothing like steroids. The people using steroids are equally as skilled as their opponents. Steroids aren't magic and don't miraculously give the user abilities they didn't have prior.

Both Ben Johnson and Carl Lewis were on steroids, fwiw. "True winner" is a joke.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#44
post #38
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheats are about two things: money or prestige. People want to get back at the players who so rudely beat them normally, and get high competitive rankings that make them look better than other players in that games community. Or, they use the cheats to create high ranking game accounts to sell to players who want to look good, or they simply cheat to win prize money. It should go without saying that this kind of acti…

The analog to steroids and high-level competition is really interesting, something I've chatted with my friends about a bit. In some of the highest tier bodybuilding competitions, some people will be using steroids, and because that went unchecked and unspoken, now everyone has to or else they have no chance of competing. If you want to compete and you aren't using steroids, you will lose, so you have to start using…

Steroids don't really work the way that video game hacks work though. The analog would be if only elite players could access the aim hacks, and they only impacted a small percentage of play. And, if we're being very realistic, all of the elite players' opponents would also be using them.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#45
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point: the AI in my imaginary world doesn't need desires. The human brain is acting as a "desire coprocessor".

This is such an underrated idea. It is possible that at the logical conclusion of the current trend of machines getting better at previously human-only things, it might turn out that all we can really do that a machine cannot, is to want things. I don’t know if that is better than the alternative ending, but it’s something to think about.

It started a long ago.

I want to go to the sea and my car brings me there faster than I could if I walked. Actually, I'd never been at the sea if there were no machines (trains first).

But the train, the car, the AI are only tools. Not much different than a knife or its first ancestors, the flint shards.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#47
post #3

One may wonder what exactly is the point in a human watching this auto-playing game system, and whether they'd be better off watching a movie... But another way to look at it is as a preview of the future. Just picture this: a world of machines battling it out for supremacy, and somewhere off to the side there is an almost forgotten human brain. It seems to serve no discernible purpose, and yet it is actually the rea…

Asimov had a thought about machines battling for supremacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feeling_of_Power

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#48
post #27

I played competitive level Quake 3/Quake Live for a number of years, during the height of its popularity. I also have friends who play more modern competitive FPS games, such as CS:GO. Even though QL was only a small online scene, the use aimbots, triggerbots, wallhacks, and similar tools was always very common at the competitive level. Quake Live had very limited anti-cheat functionality, so it was never relied upon…

I side with you. Also being a pro-gamer in RTS years ago, I can relate. There are many small steps between n00b level and mastery and a lot has to come together to be at expert level in gaming. Usually experts can play in variable settings, cheaters only in one particular. Experts can adapt, while cheaters usually not. Usually real talk about how you handled and interpreted a certain situation will show the differenc…

> There are many small steps between n00b level and mastery and a lot has to come together to be at expert level in gaming...

Absolutely. One thing that I may not have made clear enough to people who have never played competitive online games is that it takes so much practice to master these games that your progression can't possibly go unnoticed, even in a large community. If you're good enough to take games off well-known good players, people will know you.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#49
post #7

This is close to my ideal way of avoiding a runaway Ultron/Skynet-type AI scenario: airgap it and force the use of a physical mouse, monitor, and keyboard to interact with the outside world. At least once it reaches Twitter we can stop it before it destroys humanity one robotic keystroke at a time.

Connection to the world only through mouse/keyboard won’t stop AGI that is smarter and more productive than any hacker team in the world. It will type it’s own source code (but better) into a hacked TPU/GPU/whatever cluster using a keyboard and vim, no problem.

Yeah, but we don't really need to worry until it starts using Emacs.

Re: Cheating in FPS by using a second computer to move mouse

#50
post #27

I played competitive level Quake 3/Quake Live for a number of years, during the height of its popularity. I also have friends who play more modern competitive FPS games, such as CS:GO. Even though QL was only a small online scene, the use aimbots, triggerbots, wallhacks, and similar tools was always very common at the competitive level. Quake Live had very limited anti-cheat functionality, so it was never relied upon…

I still play QuakeLive on a regular basis; the problem is mostly fixed by playing on servers with a stable community.

AFAIK no players are actively cheating in that community, although some prefer to play using timenudge, which could be considered an "allowed cheat". Fortunately it's quite easy to spot those laggards, and it's up to yourself to decide whether you want to opt for fair play or not... (Also, it feels quote good to beat them even though they have an advantage over you.)

Also, it's rare to have skilled players that cheat, so most cheaters are easily detected.

And to add to unfair advantages: I have very good ping, and also noticed I moved up on ranking after switching from a slow monitor and Bluetooth mouse to a gaming monitor and - mouse. While this is not considered a cheat, it might give you an unfair advantage over the players who use less then average hardware.

I assume it's part of human nature to figure out ways to get an edge over others, and the difference between legal and illegal is mostly about subjective standards. A good example would be doping: as long as it's not on the doping list, it's considered fair play; I recall a trend of asthma along professional road cyclists a couple of years ago. Once the needed medication was on the doping list, the trend reversed immediately.

In my experience these additional "optimizations" are unavoidable.

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