Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring • Hacker News Board

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#281

Post by shadilay » Fri, Jul 09, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #198

jdmichal wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My AP calculus teacher allowed us to use calculators on our tests. Why? Because he knew exactly how to design questions such that the calculator would switch from exact to approximation mode. So you could enter any problem on the test into the calculator, and all it would spit out is a useless answer with as many decimal places as it could handle. Of course the calculator worked fine on every homework question. But y…

Calculators are generally useless in Calculus. Or at least they should be. Calculus is a process, and normally you are graded on that process, not on the answer. We were allowed calculators too, but the problems were designed that anyone even mildly good at mental math didn't need them. In theory you could teach all of calculus without ever even using numbers (perhaps except 0).

In calculus a calculator can often give you the answer but you only get credit for showing the steps which the calculator can't help you with.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#282

Post by Teknoman117 » Fri, Jul 09, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #280

Workaccount2 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calculators are generally useless in Calculus. Or at least they should be. Calculus is a process, and normally you are graded on that process, not on the answer. We were allowed calculators too, but the problems were designed that anyone even mildly good at mental math didn't need them. In theory you could teach all of calculus without ever even using numbers (perhaps except 0).

> Calculators are generally useless in Calculus. Or at least they should be. Mathematica, on the other hand...

Wolfram Alpha and Mathematica got me through Calculus. I paid for an account because I absolutely loved the "show step by step process" feature so you could actually learn how and why you were getting various results.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#283

Post by charcircuit » Fri, Jul 09, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

shadilay wrote: post #281

Workaccount2 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calculators are generally useless in Calculus. Or at least they should be. Calculus is a process, and normally you are graded on that process, not on the answer. We were allowed calculators too, but the problems were designed that anyone even mildly good at mental math didn't need them. In theory you could teach all of calculus without ever even using numbers (perhaps except 0).

In calculus a calculator can often give you the answer but you only get credit for showing the steps which the calculator can't help you with.

Just get or a program a calculator that shows steps then.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#284

Post by mkl » Fri, Jul 09, 2021, 11:06 PM UTC

atatatat wrote: post #160

mkl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you have your phone with you? Stash it in the bathroom? At my university the invigilators make you show what's in your pockets before and after going to the bathroom (which has itself been checked, and which has a log of people and times), and you can't take anything out (e.g. formula sheet to secretly copy somehow-bathroom-stashed notes onto) or bring anything in. Phones are in bags up the front of the room,…

> The kinds of things you're talking about very rarely happens, and consequences include fines and academic penalties. You are making assumptions based on your own experiences, and they are incorrect. You have a lot of faith in for-profit entities.

That sentence is specifically describing my university, like the sentence before it. Nothing in my comment is about for-profit entities.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#285

Post by silexia » Fri, Jul 09, 2021, 11:24 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #276

SiempreViernes wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much does the team cost?

That would depend on the level of expertise you need. To pass a highschool calc exam, probably less than 100$. To have someone sit the LSAT for you in person, probably in the low five figures. I've never been involved with people actually being paid for such things but they do happen. Huffman allegedly paid $15,000 to get her daughter unlimited time on the SAT. Paying to have someone actually stand in would have cert…

The team could just be your own friends in the class. Each one of you gets a turn to take the test with the others helping find answers. No cost.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#286

Post by zajio1am » Fri, Jul 09, 2021, 11:33 PM UTC

TravisHusky wrote: post #273

kwhitefoot wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace exams with vivas and see how far the cheats can get. At least make a viva voce a large proportion of the final score.

I have never had an oral exam, but I have always thought it would be great for smaller classes. Basically I would love to have an exam where I sit down with a professor for 30 minutes to an hour and talk about the content and answer questions they ask. I feel like it would be a bit more in-depth while also eliminating the possibility of misunderstanding a mistakenly ambiguous question. I am not sure how realistic tha…

Most of exams i took during my university studies were oral exams. I definitely prefer them to written exams. They were used even for big classes with 100+ students, professors just declare multiple test dates (each with say 20 timeslots) and students booked to them.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#287

Post by TheFreim » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:47 AM UTC

swiley wrote: post #194

TheFreim wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Discord accounts are tied to real identities Since when? My discord account doesn't have my name or phone linked at all, just email.

You got grandfathered in then, congrats.

I created an alternative account the other day and it didn't ask for my identity (within the last two weeks)...

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#288

Post by aero-glide2 » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 2:13 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #171

aero-glide2 wrote: post #62

Banning e-proctoring is unfair to students who worked hard.

You don't think students who worked hard deserve privacy?

Do you have privacy when you sit in the exam hall?

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#289

Post by 908B64B197 » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

TravisHusky wrote: post #175

Just to throw it out there, I graduated during the pandemic, and it was so frustrating not only the amount of cheating that occurred, which meant that if you didn't cheat you fell behind; but also how professors responded. I had a few professors who made exams ridiculously hard with strict time limits, just because they expected people to cheat. So the exams were designed in a way they cheating was the only way to ge…

Places that take academic honesty seriously tend to find ways to not have cheating happen in the first place. Caltech is notorious for it's take-home exams for instance.

But let's look at the reality of a student at a normal institution or trying to get into college today; it's a series of high stakes exams that decides your future. And a prisoners' dilemma since as soon as someone cheats you have to do it as well just to keep up. This used to be high risk high reward but now, thanks to the pandemic, it suddenly became low risk high reward. No wonders everyone is doing it.

Really, it's a great equalizer. Pre-Pandemic, it was a common strategy to get "diagnosed" with ADHD to get extra time during exams. But for that you needed well connected parents. Now everyone can cheat.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#290

Post by 908B64B197 » Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 2:43 AM UTC

zelphirkalt wrote: post #204

TravisHusky wrote: post #175

Just to throw it out there, I graduated during the pandemic, and it was so frustrating not only the amount of cheating that occurred, which meant that if you didn't cheat you fell behind; but also how professors responded. I had a few professors who made exams ridiculously hard with strict time limits, just because they expected people to cheat. So the exams were designed in a way they cheating was the only way to ge…

> Honestly I don't think I can fault students who cheated during the pandemic, it was just so abnormal that most people did whatever they had to to cope. Cheating is never OK. Look what that lead to. A few bad apples ruined it for the other students. People have to learn, that their behavior in such a setting does not only affect themselves. In this case it very negatively impacted everyone studying with them.

> People have to learn, that their behavior in such a setting does not only affect themselves. In this case it very negatively impacted everyone studying with them.

Except, for many competitive positions, that's a zero-sum game.