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Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

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Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#191

Post by BeetleB »

8note wrote: post #180
tdeck wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing because I've told multiple Amazon recruiters "I don't want to work at Amazon, please make a note so that other Amazon recruiters don't contact me" and it never works. They have a central secret list of employees not to rehire, but when it comes to sourcing they can't get their shit together.

Accept a job, and get paid to be fired and never reached out to again?

You vastly overestimate their competence. I routinely get recruiter calls from companies that have embargoed me for a year due to not succeeding in their interview. They contact me, get a conversation started, then in the middle they apologize and say they didn't realize I'm on the embargo list.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#192

Post by stefan_ »

Aqueous wrote: post #148
ToxicMegacolon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL My manager used to discuss my promotion doc with me, and talk about who we can approach for promotion feedback. I found out about 'focus' or my 'performance issues' when I resigned from Amazon.

Does it ever happen that the manager puts someone on 'Focus,' their performance improves, and then the manager forgets to take them off of it?

That assumes you were put on the list for performance reasons.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#193

Post by BeetleB »

tdeck wrote: post #154
stornetn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t the complete picture. It’s true that the vesting schedule gives you only 5% of RSUs in your first year, but employees’ cash signing bonus is increased to offset that. So if the total compensation target for a role is generally $500k (say, a principal engineer or a director, maybe?) and your salary is capped at $160k, you’d be given a signing bonus of $500k-$160k-(total stock vest x 5%) in cash. It’s not as…

Cash bonus is taxed at a much higher rate, isn't it?

Nope. When your RSUs vest, their value at the time of vesting is added to your W-2 income, and gets taxed at regular income.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#194

Post by BeetleB »

stevepotter wrote: post #92
eigen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

doesnt Amazon cap base salary around $180k and only 5% of RSUs vest the first year? my understanding is that, barring a massive RSU package, you cant get to $500k in the first year.

they give you a signing bonus, paid out over time, to make up for the difference in total comp in the first two years

If you leave in less than a year, don't you have to return the signing bonus as well?

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#195

Post by macintux »

throwaway48323 wrote: post #150
mrorbitman wrote: post #129

I've never seen anyone on a PIP bounce back. The smart move is to start your job hunt immediately when you discover you're on a PIP. Otherwise it's a long and stressful road to termination. The second the people around you don't believe you can cut it, it's already too late and best to find a gig elsewhere.

I had a PIP at a startup when six months in and several years later I'm the lead now. I saved my job by working during my ~two day vacation (and weekend) and building a bunch of things that I had talked with the non-eng cofounder about that weren't on the official roadmap but that had high value. Turned out the way engineering was organized wasn't very compatible with me (didn't take advantage of my product sense and…

I suspect that kind of story is more common at small companies still trying to define a path forward (or with inconsistent management philosophies).

Still, impressive turnaround.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#196

Post by quickthrower2 »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #167
decafninja wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I see being touted is F & N > G > A & A for TC? Obviously there are many factors in play so that might not always be the case. Also per my other comment on this thread, sounds like Netflix really blows away all others because there is no shenanigans around RSUs, cliffs, unexpected appreciation, etc.? Correct me if I'm wrong since I am definitely no expert at this game.

This is probably true, but socially Apple seems like it gets a better reception/superior people. Folks at Amazon are pretty normal. Disclaimer - I’m very average and work at Amazon

Yes Im probably average and I’d go with whoever takes me, but as I’m outside of the US it’s all hypothetical

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#197

Post by BeetleB »

MattGaiser wrote: post #117

Are performance improvement plans actually genuine in most cases? If I were put on one or got a negative performance review, I would assume that I have essentially been fired but my boss is waiting on key paperwork.

If your manager has been clearly communicating his displeasure with your performance, then a PIP is really just a signal that you need to leave. If I didn't see eye to eye with a manager all this time, his putting me on a PIP isn't going to suddenly make me change. Conversely, if I accepted his criticism earlier, I would have already changed and not received a PIP.

Of course, if there are bad actors involved, it's a whole other story.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#198

Post by ben0x539 »

decafninja wrote: post #94
stornetn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t the complete picture. It’s true that the vesting schedule gives you only 5% of RSUs in your first year, but employees’ cash signing bonus is increased to offset that. So if the total compensation target for a role is generally $500k (say, a principal engineer or a director, maybe?) and your salary is capped at $160k, you’d be given a signing bonus of $500k-$160k-(total stock vest x 5%) in cash. It’s not as…

I keep hearing all the letters of FAANG have more or less similarly competitive total compensation if you factor in RSUs, appreciation, etc. But then I hear things about "cliffs" and how extremely high TCs are possible only because of stock appreciation. In that sense, is Netflix basically untouchable in terms of compensation, if F/A/A/G (and other companies like Uber, Lyft, Airbnb, Microsoft, etc.) can only be compe…

I think the idea is that you'd only reach a cliff if someone decided to cut off the periodic RSU grants, and at that point you should probably have been interviewing elsewhere because they probably want you gone?

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#199

Post by otterley »

mrorbitman wrote: post #129

I've never seen anyone on a PIP bounce back. The smart move is to start your job hunt immediately when you discover you're on a PIP. Otherwise it's a long and stressful road to termination. The second the people around you don't believe you can cut it, it's already too late and best to find a gig elsewhere.

I have. I went from being PIPed after my first year due to not getting along with my team, to being nominated for Yahoo!'s Super Star award (the highest honor in the company) a year later. People can and do turn around when they are mentored with care and the will to succeed.

Re: Amazon tells bosses to conceal when employees are on performance management plan

#200

Post by tlogan »

kube-system wrote: post #48

> Instead, tell the employee that their performance is not meeting expectations, the specific areas where they need to improve, and offer feedback and support to help them improve. As long you are effectively communicating performance on a regular basis, I don't really see the point in telling an employee that "we're formally thinking about firing you" other than dropping a morale bomb in the workplace. If you're tel…

I worked as a manager in a mega-corp. One of tricks I was told by other managers is to put your best employees on the ‘focus’ list (grade 3) so they cannot leave for a better position/team in the company. But they would get bonuses because the bonuses were per team and HR was not aware who gets what.

Of course the ‘focus’ list was a secret list :)

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