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Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

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Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#61

Post by MattGaiser »

jolmg wrote: post #53
lordnacho wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the general point of the article. When you're deep coding you have a tentative model containing a lot of variables about the problem. You haven't committed them to memory yet, because it's all workings out that are undecided. Once you make some conclusions, that can be remembered because the end theory is simpler than the path to get there. Nobody else constructs models in their minds that are almost pur…

> Nobody else constructs models in their minds that are almost purely mechanical and specific to a small problem. Every model the sales guy or manager uses has very few knobs to twist What about mechanical engineers, electronic engineers, etc.?

The comment could probably apply to every form of engineering if we want to look at things broadly.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#62

Post by spideymans »

werber wrote: post #5

To add to this, there’s a lot of neurodiversity in the programming world. A lot of people have brilliant brains that just don’t work well with interaction. I had a discussion with other people on my team recently and realized I was the only extroverted person on the team. I think it’s also worth saying I personally think I’m one of the worst developers on the team but being able to context switch is unfairly rewarded…

>I’m one of the worst developers on the team but being able to context switch is unfairly rewarded and gives business people the impression I’m way more competent than I am

Why do you say you're being unfairly rewarded? Your communication skills are a genuinely useful skill to have.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#63

Post by jolmg »

lordnacho wrote: post #58
jolmg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody else constructs models in their minds that are almost purely mechanical and specific to a small problem. Every model the sales guy or manager uses has very few knobs to twist What about mechanical engineers, electronic engineers, etc.?

They are programmers. They even use programming tools to do their work.

Architects, lawyers...

EDIT: Removed writers. Architects and lawyers don't have as much room for mistakes and technical detail matters more in their work.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#64

Post by uxp100 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #14
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> Your non-techie peers just don’t get it, no matter how many times you try to make them understand. We really need to get past this smug idea that tech work is uniquely difficult in a way that no one else can understand. Any deep work suffers from interruptions, and programming isn't the only type of work that has significant mental context. This idea that programmers are uniquely vulnerable does no favors when tryi…

> Any deep work suffers from interruptions, and programming isn't the only type of work that has significant mental context. This idea that programmers are uniquely vulnerable and no one else can understand doesn't help the situation. We seem to be the only profession that cares then. It is only developers who get why you Slack people you are sitting next to.

I guess I consider it part of my Job to be there and answer questions, assist other developers, etc.

(Also please do not slack me when you're sitting right next to me, it's like, more disruptive and annoying than just talking to me. But mostly just use Email, please.)

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#65

Post by notatoad »

1-6 wrote: post #3

Actually, HN is more of a distraction to me than random people popping by.

HN feels like a distraction, but i find that when i don't have some sort of distraction i'm less productive. if i'm deep into solving some problem i don't have any motivation to check HN or other time wasters.

but without some way to distract myself in small increments when i need a break, i end up "focusing" on unimportant tasks that aren't material to the actual task i need to complete, which end up wasting more of my time than a couple minutes of scrolling through HN or twitter.

the problem isn't the wasted time, it's the interruption while you're trying to focus. there's nothing wrong with taking a break from focusing.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#66

Post by lmilcin »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> Your non-techie peers just don’t get it, no matter how many times you try to make them understand. We really need to get past this smug idea that tech work is uniquely difficult in a way that no one else can understand. Any deep work suffers from interruptions, and programming isn't the only type of work that has significant mental context. This idea that programmers are uniquely vulnerable does no favors when tryi…

I think the reason this is more damaging to developers because as a developer you probably can't produce anything without focusing.

As to communicating when you don't want to be interrupted -- I am still working from home, and even my kids know that when the door to the office is closed they can't interrupt.

When I was still working at the office I was telling people that headphones == do not disturb.

Obviously, you need to provide them some way to send you the message. I try to keep my office doors open and headphones off when not necessary. I also tell people shoot an email and I will respond when I can.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#67

Post by Zababa »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> Your non-techie peers just don’t get it, no matter how many times you try to make them understand. We really need to get past this smug idea that tech work is uniquely difficult in a way that no one else can understand. Any deep work suffers from interruptions, and programming isn't the only type of work that has significant mental context. This idea that programmers are uniquely vulnerable does no favors when tryi…

> Instead, communicate like peers: "Sorry, I'm in the middle of something important. Can you come back at lunch time?"

That's already too late though. At this point I've already lost what I was doing.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#69

Post by phkahler »

comeonseriously wrote: post #46
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> Your non-techie peers just don’t get it, no matter how many times you try to make them understand. We really need to get past this smug idea that tech work is uniquely difficult in a way that no one else can understand. Any deep work suffers from interruptions, and programming isn't the only type of work that has significant mental context. This idea that programmers are uniquely vulnerable does no favors when tryi…

> Instead, communicate like peers I agree, however... > "Is this urgent? I can't really stop what I'm doing right now, but I can stop by your office around 3PM. Will that work?" I would just say: "I can't really stop what I'm doing right now, but I can stop by your office around 3PM." If you ask them if that will work, they'll tell you they need the answer immediately most of the time. People want instant gratificati…

>> If you ask them if that will work, they'll tell you they need the answer immediately most of the time.

The question "Will that work" is optional. You need to be polite when dismissing someone, but the goal here is to offer 2 messages "I'm busy now" and "I'll get to you as soon as this busyness passes" The discussion needs to end as quickly as possible so as to not lose your focus, but also without making them angry. Asking questions in that case is probably a bad idea.

Re: Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions (2014)

#70

Post by lordnacho »

jolmg wrote: post #63
lordnacho wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are programmers. They even use programming tools to do their work.

Architects, lawyers... EDIT: Removed writers. Architects and lawyers don't have as much room for mistakes and technical detail matters more in their work.

Intuitivists. They might take their time to refine their thoughts but they aren't programmers.

Type one thing wrong and your novel is still a novel.

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