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Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

baneproctoring.com

211–220 of 324 posts

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#211

Just to throw it out there, I graduated during the pandemic, and it was so frustrating not only the amount of cheating that occurred, which meant that if you didn't cheat you fell behind; but also how professors responded. I had a few professors who made exams ridiculously hard with strict time limits, just because they expected people to cheat. So the exams were designed in a way they cheating was the only way to ge…

> Honestly I don't think I can fault students who cheated during the pandemic, it was just so abnormal that most people did whatever they had to to cope. Cheating is never OK. Look what that lead to. A few bad apples ruined it for the other students. People have to learn, that their behavior in such a setting does not only affect themselves. In this case it very negatively impacted everyone studying with them.

Why are we constantly surprised when people focus on the only metrics they're judged by?

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#212
post #183

Just to throw it out there, I graduated during the pandemic, and it was so frustrating not only the amount of cheating that occurred, which meant that if you didn't cheat you fell behind; but also how professors responded. I had a few professors who made exams ridiculously hard with strict time limits, just because they expected people to cheat. So the exams were designed in a way they cheating was the only way to ge…

I had an experience like this in Numerical Methods in university years ago. The exams were incredibly difficult for bad reasons: you had to calculate many iterations of an algorithm by hand. You also had to memorize a bunch of algorithms (rather than understanding how they worked or how to modify them to solve different problems). The professor also had a "can't do anything about it" attitude, and so the entire class…

I think professors should ask themselves if their exam would make a good CAPTCHA. If a machine could solve the exam easier than a human, it's a bad exam.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know some student hate it because there is always a slacker in every group My experience is that there is sometimes somebody who is not a slacker, and it's usually the only one doing the work for the entire group.

Everyone thinks they are that one person. It is hard to be objective when different people are doing different things.

Nah, it's very easy to be objective when on a 5 pages homework, one write 5, and the others 0. Or if only one person has compiling code on their machine the day before the project. Of if only one person speak on the conf because the others don't have anything to say.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#214
To amuse a client who did "security by checkbox" everyone needed some entry level comptia certs, even old timers who "wrote the book" back in the old days LOL, so I took some proctored tests live at a testing center recently.

I read a lot of reports of eproctor'd tests being cancelled by rando e-proctors with zero recourse. There are three problems. The first is some of these tests cost hundreds of dollars, although I suppose getting kicked out of uni for cheating would be even more expensive, its just a huge risk to e-proctor compared to the human touch at my local test center. Secondly there is no feedback no oversight and no escalation procedure for most e-proctor systems that I'm aware of, some amazon turk nobody can cancel your test on you for any reason they feel like with zero recourse and you're out all the money and theres absolutely nothing you can do about it. Infinite power with no oversight will be infinitely abused. Thirdly the demands for a sterile test location were kind of a PITA. Honestly its easier to go to a test center than to provably and verifiably remove every book and piece of paper and anything with writing on it, from my office at home. I need to remove the kids from the house as any sight of another person is an instant disqualification and loss of my expensive test fee. I can't take it outside what if my neighbor starts mowing the lawn or it starts raining, instant fail when I leave the camera view. I have to silence every electronics device in the house because any interruption is again another forfeited expensive test.

(edited to add, I remember another complaint about e-proctor that to prevent brain dumps and copying questions out of their "secret test" any mumbling or even facial expressions were considered an autofail according to some online reports of people taking my test. I did the net+ and found it quite easy but sure enough I can't discuss for NDA reasons or whatever but I was eye rolling "you gotta be kidding" about one question and at a testing center locked in a room alone nobody cares when I roll my eyes but that would have cost me $350 if I did e-proctor testing.

also to prevent copying their top secret test they needed proof I had no electronics devices in sight, so it wasn't just removal of all paper products but anything electronic had to be removed from my office/lab it was just ridiculous)

Its just easier and faster and vastly less stressful to get out of the house and test onsite at the nearest Vue facility, which is a school I formerly attended LOL.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#215
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I teached a C class during coronavirus lockdown in France and I also did something of the sort (having different question per student, mixing their order, etc). But I think, most importantly, I put a lot of emphasis on group work & home work. This has also its own issues. I like to do group homework because I believe that in the real world, you rarely work alone, and group work allow to have more fun project than wha…

> I know some student hate it because there is always a slacker in every group My experience is that there is sometimes somebody who is not a slacker, and it's usually the only one doing the work for the entire group.

That's why this is good training for the real world.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#216

Just to throw it out there, I graduated during the pandemic, and it was so frustrating not only the amount of cheating that occurred, which meant that if you didn't cheat you fell behind; but also how professors responded. I had a few professors who made exams ridiculously hard with strict time limits, just because they expected people to cheat. So the exams were designed in a way they cheating was the only way to ge…

i still cannot understand why american (i am assuming) education is based on competition and ranking students.

almost like the point is NOT education at all.

your comment makes no sense in my universe. Thankfully.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#217
post #214

To amuse a client who did "security by checkbox" everyone needed some entry level comptia certs, even old timers who "wrote the book" back in the old days LOL, so I took some proctored tests live at a testing center recently. I read a lot of reports of eproctor'd tests being cancelled by rando e-proctors with zero recourse. There are three problems. The first is some of these tests cost hundreds of dollars, although…

from the other comments, it is a pain for honest ppl and a blessing for cheaters.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#218

Just to throw it out there, I graduated during the pandemic, and it was so frustrating not only the amount of cheating that occurred, which meant that if you didn't cheat you fell behind; but also how professors responded. I had a few professors who made exams ridiculously hard with strict time limits, just because they expected people to cheat. So the exams were designed in a way they cheating was the only way to ge…

> it was so frustrating not only the amount of cheating that occurred

Yeah, it's crazy that cheaters are the protagonist of the ban e-proctoring story.

What if the university only admitted students who don't cheat?

How do we know that policy works for real at a place like Caltech?

Academic culture is accommodating, and you feel that way too. But universities must know that cheating harms everyone, it's a losing proposition. The right response should have been to suspend grading.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My AP calculus teacher allowed us to use calculators on our tests. Why? Because he knew exactly how to design questions such that the calculator would switch from exact to approximation mode. So you could enter any problem on the test into the calculator, and all it would spit out is a useless answer with as many decimal places as it could handle. Of course the calculator worked fine on every homework question. But y…

Calculators are generally useless in Calculus. Or at least they should be. Calculus is a process, and normally you are graded on that process, not on the answer. We were allowed calculators too, but the problems were designed that anyone even mildly good at mental math didn't need them. In theory you could teach all of calculus without ever even using numbers (perhaps except 0).

I think you need more numbers than that. At least 1, pi, and e. Definitely don’t need any numbers bigger than 4.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#220
post #214

To amuse a client who did "security by checkbox" everyone needed some entry level comptia certs, even old timers who "wrote the book" back in the old days LOL, so I took some proctored tests live at a testing center recently. I read a lot of reports of eproctor'd tests being cancelled by rando e-proctors with zero recourse. There are three problems. The first is some of these tests cost hundreds of dollars, although…

That seems like the kind of situation credit card chargebacks are made for, as their process of discerning cheating is nonsensical. Not that doing so would have helped you get the magic piece of paper, but perhaps you could have assuaged the client with a piece of paper from a different company.
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