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Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

baneproctoring.com

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Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#51

I can see why universities want to use a system like this. A friend of mine is a University lecturer for physics and one of his students gave him an invite to the discord channel where half his students are in there sharing all the answers during the final exam. He basically told me there is nothing he can do about it. He talked to the head of department and they basically said if you have proof of specific people ch…

Even for people who have cheated in a very obvious way, nothing is done.

A friend of mine copied an assignment right down to the name and student number as he didn't even bother to read the whole block of code so also copied the comments with the submission information.

He got 100%, but was told not to do it again.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#52
Me and my roommate are first year undergraduate students. We do different bachelors; I have taken all my tests this year with online proctoring, my roommate has had all his tests without online proctoring.

The proctoring process is actually pretty simple: I have a Google Chrome extension installed that I enable when I have to take an exam. It takes 5 extra minutes before the exam: I have to show my identification, the materials I'm using on my desk, my ears to check whether I'm using wireless earphones, and do a quick sweep around the room. It records my screen, my webcam, and my microphone. Of course, the system is not fool proof (I've heard some students use post-its on their display), but communicating with other students becomes nearly impossible.

My roommate is actually jealous of my proctoring. He does not cheat, but knows most others in his year do. There are groups of students who meet up and take exams with each other. As a result, some of his peers consistently get higher grades, while my roommate clearly put in more effort and is more capable of achieving a high grade on his own. Because the barrier to cheating is so low, it almost becomes a requirement to cheat if you want to achieve grades that are high relative to your peers.

I do not believe proctoring is a breach of my privacy. Google Chrome's sandbox is good at explaining what information the extension is requesting, and when it is turned on. Chrome's battle-tested sandboxing makes me confident that the extension is not snooping through my files, for example. It only sees my screen. I can hide things I do not want the online proctor to see before the exam starts. Similarly with my room, you can hide everything that would breach your privacy before the exam starts. Of course, online proctoring is invasive, but I believe students should think more carefully about the dilemma our teachers are facing. Lack of online proctoring discourages smart students, discourages learning, and hurts the reputation of the university in the long term with unreasonable diploma's. This pandemic requires flexibility from everyone, and simply crying "privacy" without considering both sides is short-sighted. The data recorded for online proctoring is reasonable, and does not bring us closer to any kind of "big brother" scenario.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#53

I can see why universities want to use a system like this. A friend of mine is a University lecturer for physics and one of his students gave him an invite to the discord channel where half his students are in there sharing all the answers during the final exam. He basically told me there is nothing he can do about it. He talked to the head of department and they basically said if you have proof of specific people ch…

Spitballing here, but maybe exams need to be reconsidered. What if instead, the professor has a 1:1 conversation with each student, Socrates-style? You’d know pretty quickly whether or not the student was familiar with the material, and if not, where they were weak and needed more focus. Maybe systematizing everything about education is the wrong approach.

Of course, this, in the rare cases it is applicable. In my current course we have 400 students with 3 Prof. ... So it is not really applicable.

Another thing to note is that undergrades' first job usually depends on having good grades. Some people will get lower grades and those will complain to the point of suing the university into having a more seemingly fair and unbiased process. (Note actually fair, but I'm pretty sure whoever will get a low grade on the Socrates style conversation will be pissed and demand something else. This kind of mentoring only makes sense in the PhD level really, where grades matter less)

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#54
Eproctoring is a terrible solution to a real problem.

There is cheating at universities. Traditional invigilated exams are fairly effective at detecting certain kinds of cheating, and ensuring a minimum level of competence in some subjects.

I’m aware of a number of different notions of cheating, though I am by no means an expert:

The sort of looking over somebody’s shoulder to see their answers is what comes to mind first, and this is fairly easy to detect through existing means (turnitin etc for written work). This is a common form of plagiarism.

There is collusion, where people try to share answers. There are varying schools of thought on how bad this is. I personally don’t worry too much about it because most assignments are primarily formative rather than summative examinations, and in these cases it is basically peer learning a lot of the time.

The most heinous kind of cheating and the hardest to detect is commissioning. This is basically when students use essay writing services or similar. They will generate an original work of appropriate quality.

It’s almost always possible to detect the kind of blatant cheating people are particularly worried about (commissioning and plagiarism) through sufficient contact time between the students and staff. A brief conversation every now and then with students will promptly reveal blatant cheaters.

There is no magic technological solution to this. Eroding student trust and privacy through invasive surveillance will inevitably lead to worse outcomes.

The solutions to this are to set better assignments, which require thoughtful answers, rather than scantron-like quizzes where answer keys can be shared, high levels of contact time to get to know students, and occasionally controlled exams to ensure nothing is slipping through the cracks. There’s a big difference between teaching and certification, and it’s very hard to balance those needs.

Anything summative needs to be marked anonymously (or at least pseudonymously), and often needs to be done under controlled conditions.

It is not possible to detect a sufficiently advanced cheater (particularly people commissioning work) working in an environment they control, on a device they control. The cheaters will beat you. They do in video games, and they will in academic pursuits too.

The people selling this are preying on a legitimate fear of cheating that universities have, but their solutions are snake oil, and degrading to the majority of students who are honest and want to learn. Better teaching solves many of these problems, and individual projects with vivas are an extremely effective solution for where you need higher assurance. We can go back to invigilated exams if we desperately need to after covid.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#55
post #5

I may not be neurotypical, but surely I'm not the only one having a hard time not parsing the domain name as "Bane Proctoring", which admittedly sounds rather ominous.

I also read it that way. One would think that after the issues with whorepresents.com and expertsexchange.com (and dozens of other popular examples) from at least a decade ago, people would be somewhat more careful as to how their domain name could be misread.

i could not unsee it anymore after it got pointed out to me in "therapists" and sometimes giggle childishly when i encounter it

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#56
Recent gatech OMSCS graduate here. I fail to recognize any real issue with proctoring. I have used proctortrack and honorlock.

* proctoring software can be installed before an exam and uninstalled afterwards. It doesn’t need to stay on your pc/browser, and its activation is very obvious. I have no info about permanent security issues caused by such software.

* what proctoring does is mostly recording video and audio (possibly with room scans at the beginning ) and uploading it to a remote server for later verification. Then, such footage is automatically scanned for anomalies. The teacher can then check what happened in flagged content parts and choose what to do. The system does not impose a “cheater” label by itself.

* proctoring systems don’t force a closed book approach. I took open book exams where the only enforcement was “be alone and no collaboration with other people during the exam”.

It seems that some people are concerned with some very specific details of some implementations, or with shitty teachers that say some people cheated just because they were flagged for whatever reason.

Some things that happened to me and I still passed the exam:

* a coworker accidentally entered the room where I was taking the exam and I had to talk with him to send him away.

* I had to change my position since I had setup my laptop in a way that was unbearable for a many-hours exam, and I briefly exited the webcam view.

I contacted the teachers when this happened and I got no issue at all.

Of course some teachers happened to be silly, at the beginning of the pandemics: I heard things like “no drinking, no eating, no restroom” for 4 hours exams. Blame the people, not the software.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#57
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recognition algorithms often make assumptions about the way people "should" be shaped according to their recorded gender or the way the machine attempts to "guess" said gender, and a clash in expectations gets flagged and generates false negatives because things aren't in the "right" places it thinks they should be. For a really simple example if this problem, the TSA body scanner machines flag on trans people consta…

So we put sex on passports? What is the issue?

One problem is that in some countries (such as the UK), you can legally change your birth certificate to have it record your supposed 'gender identity' in the sex field instead. Your actual sex is erased.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#58
post #36

Algo for teachers affected by cheating: 1) make questions brutal and unique (compared to previous year or current groups) if possible 2) make everything open-book 3) set a tough time limit 4) curve the results to a desired grade distribution (that is often imposed from above anyway) 5) use software that can the catch most obvious frauds (i.e. 360 degree room scanning, ban use of phones/second computers etc.) 6) if th…

I’m not sure about curving the grades. It creates a level of adversarial competition between students that I don’t think is healthy in an academic environment. Sometimes it can be necessary, but it’s not fair to punish people for having better peers than last year.

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#59
post #8

I took a course recently and the final exam had this kind of eproctoring setup where I would have to install proprietary software, show the examiner around my room, under my desk and so on. I did not take the exam.

Was that a curveball? Nobody had told you beforehand?

Re: Protect student privacy: ban eproctoring

#60

I agree that these e-proctoring measures seem draconian, but the flip side of this is absolutely RAMPANT cheating at universities. I don’t know what kind of fair system lies between these two issues. Also, the domain is poorly chosen, “Bane Proctoring” sounds like a particularly terrifying proctoring service.

> but the flip side of this is absolutely RAMPANT I REALLY doubt this. There's plenty of alternative or hardened testing methods.

You’d be absolutely shocked by the amount of flagrant plagiarism that you get in certain courses.

There are ads for essay writing services targeting every university student out there. A lot of them take those offers.

It’s usually a symptom of a larger problem though.

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