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EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

argusmedia.com

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Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#71

Post by whatever1 »

stavros wrote: post #49
whatever1 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The West has been consuming fossils to fuel their industrial revolution for centuries, but now that is time of the East to use energy and grow, we tell them that energy is bad for the environment and that they have to pay tax or buy expensive energy (renewables)

We don't tell them they have to pay, we tell everyone that we should all pay . Your reasoning is just "we benefitted from X bad thing in the past so now we should let others do it too".

It's easy to point your finger and say that "we are in this together" when you are in a position of power.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#72

Post by AndrewBissell »

tpmx wrote: post #60

Blog spam (edit: link now changed to something less clickbaity). The original source, anyway: https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/draft-... The European Commission has drafted plans to set an EU-wide minimum tax rate for polluting aviation fuels, as it seeks to meet more ambitious targets to fight climate change, a document seen by Reuters shows. ... Introducing the proposals could be politically di…

I'd be happy to see the link changed to the Argus article linked by jey earlier. The Reuters article buries the lede.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#73

Post by bosswipe »

whatever1 wrote: post #37
duxup wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"more about control" Control what though? It's a carbon tax on jet fuel. Makes sense to me that some folks with some connections could get themself exempt (even if unfair). But I don't see anyone else paying any more or less under "control"... those folks are still going to travel.

The West has been consuming fossils to fuel their industrial revolution for centuries, but now that is time of the East to use energy and grow, we tell them that energy is bad for the environment and that they have to pay tax or buy expensive energy (renewables)

Yes it's extremely unfair that the West used up what turned out to be the planet's entire carbon budget. But it doesn't change the fact that humanity has to stop emitting carbon.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#74

Post by mhandley »

Exempting private jets seems dumb, but I guess it's important we don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Taxing regular commercial passenger flights will have most of the impact, and should encourage more efficient planes, bootstrap the market for sustainable synthetic fuels or electric short-range aircraft, and encourage more travel by train for shorter journeys. If exempting business jets is what's required to make it politically acceptable to all 27 member states so it actually goes into force, so be it. Much better this than another decade of debate and no action. The loose ends can always be cleaned up later.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#75

Post by stavros »

whatever1 wrote: post #71
stavros wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't tell them they have to pay, we tell everyone that we should all pay . Your reasoning is just "we benefitted from X bad thing in the past so now we should let others do it too".

It's easy to point your finger and say that "we are in this together" when you are in a position of power.

It's hard not to when the planet is dying.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#76

Post by DSingularity »

BelenusMordred wrote: post #5

> Private jets will enjoy an exemption through classification of "business aviation" as the use of aircraft by firms for carriage of passengers or goods as an "aid to the conduct of their business", if generally considered not for public hire. > A further exemption is given for "pleasure" flights whereby an aircraft is used for "personal or recreational" purposes not associated with a business or professional use. Su…

At what point will we stop acting as if the government legislates to represent the interests of the constituency who voted for the politicians and not the elites who fund its politicians?

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#77

Post by sharken »

js8 wrote: post #45
shreyshnaccount wrote: post #32

The EU has been completely bonkers for the last few years. Just staggeringly stupid policy I mean look at them literally banning encryption and then this I'm confused but the ppl running the eu are more confused

The EU (especially the Eurozone) was designed when neoliberal paradigm was in fashion (1980s-1990s). That's why currently its core institutions are less democratic than they should be.

That is a very generous interpretation of the EUs action in this matter.

If the proposal regarding "pleasure" flights stands, then the EU is no better than UEFA or IOC.

Is that really the message that the EU wants to send i wonder.

It also reflects poorly on Slovenia that is currently holding the presidency, but i suspect they don't really care.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_the_Council_of...

EDIT:

Having read another source it doesn't seem clear that pleasure flights are exempt.

https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publicat...

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#78

Post by Schlaefer »

Bjartr wrote: post #52
Schlaefer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who talks about jets or crews? This doesn't affect billionaires, but private and recreational use of mostly small propeller planes. Flying is expensive, but it isn't a privilege of "rich jerks". You want to make it a privilege for the elite, then go ahead and tax it to death.

> [this affects] private and recreational use of mostly small propeller planes. Private and recreational flying is explicitly exempted from the tax too. So I don't think it affects them.

> Private and recreational flying is explicitly exempted from the tax too. So I don't think it affects them.

That was my point. Most of the comments hammer down on "oh, the corrupt elite wants to cheaply fly to Davos", ignoring that flying - while a very expensive hobby - is an aspirational and achievable endeavor for many people including an attached industry and jobs.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#79

Post by hkt »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #51
jey wrote: post #2

This seems to be the upstream source article: https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2231434-eu-draft-exempts-...

Isn't this still a very .. unknown source to be using as basis for this type of outragy-clickbaity article?

This is what Guido Fawkes ("order order") does. They are extremely right wing and hysterically anti-EU. Wait until a real outlet covers it.

Re: EU draft exempts private jets, cargo from jet fuel tax

#80

Post by derriz »

whatever1 wrote: post #37
duxup wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"more about control" Control what though? It's a carbon tax on jet fuel. Makes sense to me that some folks with some connections could get themself exempt (even if unfair). But I don't see anyone else paying any more or less under "control"... those folks are still going to travel.

The West has been consuming fossils to fuel their industrial revolution for centuries, but now that is time of the East to use energy and grow, we tell them that energy is bad for the environment and that they have to pay tax or buy expensive energy (renewables)

Where do you get the idea that renewables are expensive energy? Utility scale onshore wind and solar PV are the cheapest form of generation[1] by a long shot.

And because of this, 90% of the global electricity generation capacity added in 2020 was renewable. There wasn't a single coal burning power plant built in the US last year, despite political support for coal - it's just too uneconomic. This isn't coercion, taxes or anything - it's simple economics and it's happening everywhere - developed and developing countries.

Using old/outdated technology doesn't fuel growth in developing countries. Just because the industrial revolution in the west was powered by coal and steam engines, doesn't mean it makes any sense for a modern developing country to start building steam engines to power a manufacturing base.

[1] https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-...

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