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Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

prospect.org

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Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#281

Post by klyrs »

petercooper wrote: post #259

Before I start I note that I'm old enough to do what I want and I have no other habits/vices, but don't vape, kids ;-) So I, a total non-smoker, started experimenting with nicotine a few weeks ago. First I tried gum which did nothing but give me an itchy throat. Then I bought a vaping device and some juices. Why? I think I'm low in dopamine (I am not depressed, though) and had read nicotine provides a temporary boost…

I think I'm sensitive to nicotine; ymmv on actual effects. If I smoke a cigarette, it gives me a dizzy buzz, nausea, shakes, sweats... and that doesn't go away even if I smoke regularly for months. I wouldn't call it "relief" of any sort. I usually quit after a couple of weeks, and stay off for years, but I've been addicted since I was in high school. My last stint was because I'd read that nicotine can moderate stress... but I've found that stepping outside for a quick walk and not smoking is even better.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#282

Post by toomanybeersies »

krisoft wrote: post #64
toxik wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science is myopic by construction. Science does not consider what questions to answer, but rather tries to answer what can be answered. Science cannot tell you how to run a country or city. It can, at best, tell you how NOT to. Over reliance on science as guidance has also lead to some of the darkest chapters of human history, like phrenology and its use to justify racial supremacy.

> Over reliance on science as guidance has also lead to some of the darkest chapters of human history, like phrenology and its use to justify racial supremacy. Could you clarify this? I understand that humans committed terrible atrocities in the name of "racial supremacy". I also understand that the same people used science as a fig leaf to justify their actions. But you seem to be saying that over reliance on scienc…

Eugenics was a mainstream science for a large part of the 20th century, not just amongst white supremacists, and was often carried out with "good intentions", as opposed to simply being a way to legitimise white supremacist ideologies.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#283

Post by petercooper »

freedomben wrote: post #263
petercooper wrote: post #259

Before I start I note that I'm old enough to do what I want and I have no other habits/vices, but don't vape, kids ;-) So I, a total non-smoker, started experimenting with nicotine a few weeks ago. First I tried gum which did nothing but give me an itchy throat. Then I bought a vaping device and some juices. Why? I think I'm low in dopamine (I am not depressed, though) and had read nicotine provides a temporary boost…

I smoked a variety of tobacco products for years and never got anything out of it either, so it may be that some people just don't work with it. I quit trying long before vaping became a thing but I would expect similar results. I did end up moving to dip (Skoal) however and that worked. It was never more than a minor buzz but at least it did something. For me it was incredibly relaxing. I quit dip years ago as well…

Tobacco doesn't appeal to me so I won't be likely to go down that route, but it's interesting to hear your experience.

The only thing I've ever taken that's given me a true buzz plus relaxation is doxylamine which is a common OTC sleep aid in the US. The only problem is shortly thereafter it also knocks me out well into the next day so isn't exactly something to take with any regularity(!)

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#284

Post by rchaud »

afavour wrote: post #76
lemonberry wrote: post #34

My father has COPD from over 50 years of smoking. I convinced him to switch to vaping and he's been using a Juul for a few years now. Awhile after the switch his primary care physician listened to his lungs and said they sounded a lot better. She said she because the science isn't in "I can't tell you to vape but I can tell you to keep doing what you're doing". Should non-smokers pick up vaping? Probably not. But in…

I think if Juul was marketed as a smoking cessation product I’d have no problem with it. But it’s marketed as a lifestyle product and a ton of young people with no history of smoking have started vaping as a result.

> I think if Juul was marketed as a smoking cessation product I’d have no problem with it.

This is precisely how I remember e-cigarettes being marketed when I first heard about them 10 years ago. I was a smoker then, so my ears perked up.

They clearly switched their marketing to target kids who didn't even smoke to begin with. 'Juul' was synonymous with teenagehood during the mid-2010s, at least if my recollection of IG memes from that time are accurate.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#285

Post by dntrkv »

Judgmentality wrote: post #279
dntrkv wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're comparing vaping to getting vaccinated. You've clearly got an axe to grind. Not sure what you mean by this, but I think everyone should be vaccinated unless you have some health condition that prevents you from doing so. The reason I'm making that comparison is that there is an ongoing public debate about vaccines and long-term health effects that use very similar arguments to yours. All of our current data…

I understand the point you're making but I don't think you understand the point I'm making. If it turns out vaping is a net positive for society then I will genuinely be happy that you were right and I was wrong. Let's just agree to disagree.

I've seen countless people replace smoking with vaping and the massive benefits it has had on their physical health. So yeah, it pains me to see the push to ban the only working smoking alternative.

Not implying that you wanna ban it, but that's the reason why I'm so in favor of it.

> Let's just agree to disagree.

Agreed.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#286

Post by yCombLinks »

boredtofears wrote: post #268
Semaphor wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> letting smokers who don't want to quit to keep smoking, without risking lung cancer. I started smoking when I was 18 (2004), picked up some of the first vapes in 2009 (they were horrible), and finally stopped smoking in 2012. But I don’t want to stop vaping. I don’t like the modern mainstream ecigs like juul (I mix my own liquid and build my own coils on a dual 18650 battery device), but I’m just glad that vaping e…

Is it accurate to say you quit smoking when you've really just switched the device that delivers the substance you're addicted to?

100% accurate, he didn't say he wanted to quit being addicted to nicotine. He wanted to quit smoking, which he has done.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#287

Post by yCombLinks »

rob74 wrote: post #230
wayneftw wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a smoking cessation product. It helps you cease smoking. Vaping is not smoking.

Ok, so it's a smoking cessation product if you take the definition strictly - but it doesn't do anything to get you off your nicotine addiction, which people usually mean by "smoking cessation product"...

You've created your own definition and now expect us to accept it, which I don't.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#288

Post by fennecfoxen »

kenjackson wrote: post #267
fennecfoxen wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a hypothetical example: "excessive deference to science" might occur when you have a global pandemic, and a government official says, "I am following the science. Therefore an attack on me is an attack on science." This official asks for exciting new emergency powers, and uses them to push through measures which coincidentally achieve policy goals he couldn't achieve before the pandemic. In the name of Science™, h…

That isn’t deference to science. That’s just someone who can align himself to something and use it t to make himself untouchable. You see the sand thing with religion or nationalism. “An attack on me is an attack on our veterans!” It really has nothing to do with science.

Yes, that's the point.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#289

Post by mullingitover »

rob74 wrote: post #230
wayneftw wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a smoking cessation product. It helps you cease smoking. Vaping is not smoking.

Ok, so it's a smoking cessation product if you take the definition strictly - but it doesn't do anything to get you off your nicotine addiction, which people usually mean by "smoking cessation product"...

Nicotine is the thing people obsess over, but there are far more harmful substances than nicotine in tobacco cigarettes (for example, radioactive elements Polonium-210 and lead-210), and there are MAOIs that make the nicotine in tobacco smoke far more addictive.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#290

Post by grawprog »

axaxs wrote: post #265
grawprog wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I quite like the taste and mouth feel of the smoke but the nicotine itself is a bust. Perhaps a very mild caffeine-esque feeling at a push? It hasn't proven addictive as it's been sat out in my car untouched for the past four days! As someone who stupidly started smoking later in life, that's pretty much how it goes. Nicotine addiction isn't like on TV where you smoke a cigarette or puff a vape and suddenly you're h…

I'll add to that - I never found nicotine that addictive. Some grogginess, a little on edge, gone before you know it. What's hard to quit are the motor memories/habits. Get in the car, reach for your ... wait no we quit that. You start realizing how many little habits you have that way.

This is the hardest part. This and being around people who smoke. You get used to those times when you have a smoke, or socializing with people who're smoking. Even just having your smokes in your pocket or something becomes one of those things.
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