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We’re all criminals now

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81–90 of 110 posts

Re: We’re all criminals now

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old fringe crypto was the cringiest thing ever. I miss nothing about that. Every single crypto was and is called a scam in every single chat and thread about it. Pivoting to that as your rationale for whats different is very inaccurate.

It was soooo cringy and I think that's why i liked it. Going to the old BTC or crypto meetups was like going to a warhammer turny. No one showered, everyone smelled like shit and you always had those wannabe prophets preaching about a 'New World Order'. Everyone laughed along and never took it too seriously. Same thing now but people act like those prophets have something interesting to say because they are in a $10k…

Haha, I agree that the behavior of those people is a major turnoff.

Communities in the space should be wary of encouraging cult-like behavior. Those who that are cult-like will probably have a hard time attracting talented people who can make valuable contributions, since they're usually attracted by the prospect of making new things possible for the first time, rather than some weird cult with a manifest destiny ("to-the-moon") narrative.

Re: We’re all criminals now

#82
> the Reserve Bank making up seemingly hostile and uninformed rules regarding something that has no notion of borders

The whole point of being a government organization is the ability to make up rules and define notions of things like borders.

Sure, the rules may or may not be hostile and uninformed, but it seems silly to criticize a government for doing literally the primary thing it is designed to do.

Re: We’re all criminals now

#83

> the Reserve Bank making up seemingly hostile and uninformed rules regarding something that has no notion of borders The whole point of being a government organization is the ability to make up rules and define notions of things like borders. Sure, the rules may or may not be hostile and uninformed, but it seems silly to criticize a government for doing literally the primary thing it is designed to do.

Reserve bank is not the government

Re: We’re all criminals now

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 350+ million people get screwed when the government triples the money supply Not necessairly if those people have a lot of debt, or the inflation fears turn out to be a mirage.

> or the inflation fears turn out to be a mirage We have many examples throughout history where dumping large amounts (multiples) of money into an economy causes inflation. And to my knowledge, we have no examples to the contrary (ie, it being a mirage). What would make you think that this time it could be a mirage?

> What would make you think that this time it could be a mirage?

Because people have been wailing about hyperinflation fears for the last decade at least, and it hasn't happened.

Re: We’re all criminals now

#85

> the Reserve Bank making up seemingly hostile and uninformed rules regarding something that has no notion of borders The whole point of being a government organization is the ability to make up rules and define notions of things like borders. Sure, the rules may or may not be hostile and uninformed, but it seems silly to criticize a government for doing literally the primary thing it is designed to do.

Have you read the article? The relevant rule discussed is outdated and very few governments enforce something similar.

Re: We’re all criminals now

#86

> And by the way, this exact rule is the reason many South African startup founders incorporate in Delaware instead of locally, because it is extremely difficult to attract foreign investment if the investors know they will not be able to get the return on their investment (or share of the IP) out of the country again. Except that in the USA you also need to declare transfers over $10,000 to the Internal Revenue Serv…

This has nothing to do with tax avoidance and everything to do with an outdated exchange control rule that is fairly unique to South Africa.

Re: We’re all criminals now

#87
post #77

I miss the old crypto. When it was this fringe, nerdy digital coin i could transfer to my friends to pay my bar tab. Yeah - Venmo/paypal/ a billion other systems that did the same thing, but to my friends btc and eventually eth was cooler. I could stake coins, provide liquidity, mine random coins from my laptop - It was fun. The concept of a global computer was awesome, interesting and nerdy. I've never used an excha…

SEC regulation would make the space nerdy and cool again? I agree that there are many ill-informed people are buying into scams in "crypto" because they think they're "getting in early on the next bitcoin". e.g. I have a close friend who is quite non-technical who is taking a naive approach by putting a significant portion of his funds into a "cryptocurrency" (not even a utility token) with a very cultish following a…

The only thing i can truly say about that is there's a reason biden tapped gary. I have faith in Gary. But there needs to be a light hand here, cause it's getting weird.

Re: We’re all criminals now

#88
post #29
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is a fairly recent “announcement” and many people are upset about the Reserve Bank making up seemingly hostile and uninformed rules regarding something that has no notion of borders and is practically impossible for the regulators to control in terms of owning and transferring. Something that arguably does not even exist in any one location..." So now, a memorized key or password means you are transferring "rig…

The law isn't new and expecting cryptocurrency to get a free pass. The guidelines for how to follow those laws make sense. If there is anything to be upset with, it is the law itself which is something that South Africans have had a long time to get changed.

We have been trying to get it changed for DECADES, there has been numerous court cases.

Re: We’re all criminals now

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point of crypto currency is to do the exact thing money laundering laws try to prevent No. That's not the point of cryptocurrency. > to transfer large sums of cash untraceably across the globe Wrong again. You can trace all transactions across the globe with cryptocurrency. > with no way for the government to do anything about it Why is that a bad thing?

> Why is that a bad thing? It inhibits tax collection, which funds common goods. It also thwarts law enforcement, which is counter to public benefit. We can debate whether taxes or laws or governments should exist. But they do, and most people seem to favor that. Debating a thing and actively subverting it are different. Just as subverting a thing and expecting such subversion to have no consequences or response are…

We tried the debate. We didn't win. Why should we stop there?

Re: We’re all criminals now

#90
> This is a fairly recent “announcement” and many people are upset about the Reserve Bank making up seemingly hostile and uninformed rules regarding something that has no notion of borders and is practically impossible for the regulators to control in terms of owning and transferring. Something that arguably does not even exist in any one location...

Actually it's pretty simple. By "owning" Bitcoins, you own money/capital. But it's in the "blockchain", or alternatively, the possession of such money happens inside South Africa. Once you do a transaction that transfers that capital (or the power of control of such capital) outside of South Africa (ie: a foreign exchange), you are breaking the law. If you are sending it to another friend in South Africa, you should be fine. (ps: Just reading into the substance of such a law, why it was made, I'm not a lawyer and this is not a legal advice).

> And by the way, this exact rule is the reason many South African startup founders incorporate in Delaware instead of locally, because it is extremely difficult to attract foreign investment if the investors know they will not be able to get the return on their investment (or share of the IP) out of the country again. It essentially turns our country into an economic Black Hole.

All these Entrepreneurs are breaking the capital AND the fiscal laws of the country. Since I assume they won't report their holdings (because of the capital controls).

> First of all, we are dealing here with existing (very old) legislation that is fairly unique to South Africa. No “new rules” have been made. Not many countries deal with the type of restrictive exchange controls we have, in fact this specific clause was promulgated in 1961.

Most countries do have controls on the "transfer" of capital outside of a country border. (or into the country too). But since you are using the banking system, you do not notice such regulation.

> Anyway, the Reserve Bank is now in a position where it must either continue supporting a 60 year old, unenforcable rule, or focus on updating legislation to align with 2021 realities.

The thing is, countries have a payment balance. They put these rules because they usually have a few big export companies (usually natural resources) or tourism. Allowing these companies to take their money out, will destabilize their balance of trade. They could ignore the crypto-kids (their size is negligible for now), but they can't afford a loophole for the system. And for that reason, the law is unlikely to get patched.

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