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Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

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Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#271

Post by petercooper »

grawprog wrote: post #261
petercooper wrote: post #259

Before I start I note that I'm old enough to do what I want and I have no other habits/vices, but don't vape, kids ;-) So I, a total non-smoker, started experimenting with nicotine a few weeks ago. First I tried gum which did nothing but give me an itchy throat. Then I bought a vaping device and some juices. Why? I think I'm low in dopamine (I am not depressed, though) and had read nicotine provides a temporary boost…

>I quite like the taste and mouth feel of the smoke but the nicotine itself is a bust. Perhaps a very mild caffeine-esque feeling at a push? It hasn't proven addictive as it's been sat out in my car untouched for the past four days! As someone who stupidly started smoking later in life, that's pretty much how it goes. Nicotine addiction isn't like on TV where you smoke a cigarette or puff a vape and suddenly you're h…

If that's the case, I'll ditch the nicotine juices and enjoy the zero nic ones on a rare occasion then. The smoke/flavor part is amusing, but as a drug, I'm not seeing the appeal. Sugar or caffeine has a more noticeable effect.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#272

Post by qvrjuec »

grawprog wrote: post #261
petercooper wrote: post #259

Before I start I note that I'm old enough to do what I want and I have no other habits/vices, but don't vape, kids ;-) So I, a total non-smoker, started experimenting with nicotine a few weeks ago. First I tried gum which did nothing but give me an itchy throat. Then I bought a vaping device and some juices. Why? I think I'm low in dopamine (I am not depressed, though) and had read nicotine provides a temporary boost…

>I quite like the taste and mouth feel of the smoke but the nicotine itself is a bust. Perhaps a very mild caffeine-esque feeling at a push? It hasn't proven addictive as it's been sat out in my car untouched for the past four days! As someone who stupidly started smoking later in life, that's pretty much how it goes. Nicotine addiction isn't like on TV where you smoke a cigarette or puff a vape and suddenly you're h…

I've also heard similar experiences from heroin users when talking about their path to addiction. A real negative of anti-drug/smoking education is the hyperbole used when describing how addictive and amazing the substance is. When the user tries it and finds that their first hit is kind of... underwhelming, at least compared to everything they've heard, it's easier for them to say "eh, I'll never get addicted. I can do this casually" until, whammo - they're hooked.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#273

Post by toomanybeersies »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #31
ud_0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. I was unfamiliar with that term and googled it: it's described as " excessive belief in the power of scientific knowledge and techniques ". I'm struggling a bit to understand how a belief in the importance of scientific knowledge and techniques equates to a religious mindset. In an ideal world, I would absolutely prefer my government…

Not all science is good. You can publish papers which literally do not allow any valid conclusions to be drawn due to methodological errors. I suspect that's most of them since academics are judged by the number of papers they've published in impactful journals. Just because science says something doesn't mean it's true. Truth must be verifiable. It's possible to easily and cheaply verify basic physical concepts like…

> Truth must be verifiable

On the contrary, truth must be falsifiable [1]. The value of a theory is not in how easy it is to verify, but in how easily it could possibly be refuted.

[1] https://science.jrank.org/pages/9302/Falsifiability-Popper-s...

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#274

Post by qvrjuec »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #199

> Juul’s dominance dissipated around the time that over a thousand people contracted a mysterious vaping-related sickness in the fall of 2019, and state and federal regulators started to investigate the company’s blatantly obvious marketing to teenagers. Surely as hell I support investigating marketing to teenagers but in this case it would seem to me more adequate if they would rather investigate the cases of the si…

I think the case was closed on the vaping sickness, as it was attributed to black-market THC vapes using vitamin E oil to thicken their otherwise diluted distillate to give the illusion of a higher quality product. It's too late for the PR damage to be undone to vapes in general.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#275

Post by waylandsmithers »

plank_time wrote: post #197

We spent decades trying to get rid of cigarettes and it worked and now we let this fucking Juul through the front door. It’s as if we haven’t learned a fucking thing in decades, and the fact that this founder is celebrated in Silicon Valley sickens me. He just found another opportunity to hook kids on nicotine for another few generations and now he’s a fucking billionaire. Fuck that guy.

1) I get the sense that millennials (such as myself), having not lived through the era of ubiquitous cigarette smoking, kind of recognize smoking as more of a legitimate life choice, live your truth, healing crystals, class warfare, can't judge, etc.

2) Juul, being run by a bunch of amateurs, will continue to operate in an extremely sloppy manner like this and go bust eventually, and Altria & Co. will be there to benefit from the mess in the end.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#276

Post by dntrkv »

Judgmentality wrote: post #260
dntrkv wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I suspect 1:1 between getting vaccinated and not, that getting vaccinated is safer, but who knows?" See the problem with this type of rhetoric? There have been tons of studies done at this point with regards to vaping. Everything shows it as being safer. This is not equivalent to the tobacco companies lying to the public. Juul never makes any claim as to their product being 100% safe, just look at the packaging. On…

You're comparing vaping to getting vaccinated. You've clearly got an axe to grind. > There have been tons of studies done at this point with regards to vaping. Everything shows it as being safer. I haven't seen them, but there were also lots of studies that cigarette companies touted to show how safe their product was until they could no longer deny it. And seeing as how those same companies just invested a shitload…

> You're comparing vaping to getting vaccinated. You've clearly got an axe to grind.

Not sure what you mean by this, but I think everyone should be vaccinated unless you have some health condition that prevents you from doing so.

The reason I'm making that comparison is that there is an ongoing public debate about vaccines and long-term health effects that use very similar arguments to yours. All of our current data shows that getting vaccinated is a better risk tradeoff than potentially getting covid. Just like all of our current data shows that vaping is safer than smoking. Both of the counter arguments center around "but we don't know what the long term effects are" and can be applied to both these new vaccines and to vaping.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#277

Post by [deleted] »

elliekelly wrote: post #104
krisoft wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Over reliance on science as guidance has also lead to some of the darkest chapters of human history, like phrenology and its use to justify racial supremacy. Could you clarify this? I understand that humans committed terrible atrocities in the name of "racial supremacy". I also understand that the same people used science as a fig leaf to justify their actions. But you seem to be saying that over reliance on scienc…

I’m not the person you’re replying to (and I agree with your) but thinking about your question the closest thing I could come up with is maybe lobotomies? Even then I’m not really sure about the chicken and the egg. Was it ever about treating the patient or was it meant to make caring for an “embarrassing” patient easier for the family by turning the patient into a shell of a human?

[deleted]

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#278

Post by vizzier »

petercooper wrote: post #259

Before I start I note that I'm old enough to do what I want and I have no other habits/vices, but don't vape, kids ;-) So I, a total non-smoker, started experimenting with nicotine a few weeks ago. First I tried gum which did nothing but give me an itchy throat. Then I bought a vaping device and some juices. Why? I think I'm low in dopamine (I am not depressed, though) and had read nicotine provides a temporary boost…

Interesting thoughts. Some back for you from an ex smoker: I'm not entirely sure that the feeling would be described as amazing. When smoking Cigarettes I'd get a mild "buzz" nothing so strong as cannabis or alcohol in its effects, but noticeable. Probably something akin in strength to a strong coffee. I was unable to replicate that 'buzz' with a vape pen that I used while attempting to give up. However, I have to draw a difference between that feeling of buzz from the direct chemical effects from the feeling of relief of having your addiction fulfilled. The latter maybe the more extreme, the craving of nicotine is a near constant building tension that is released with that next cigarette.

Apart from yourself others have noted the meditative aspects of cigarette smoking. Beside the chemical addition aspect when giving up smoking you're losing a ritualistic break where you can spend a few minutes away from what you're currently doing, usually alone, to do a deep breathing exercise. This ritual is often a contributor to the difficulties in giving up.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#279

Post by Judgmentality »

dntrkv wrote: post #276
Judgmentality wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing vaping to getting vaccinated. You've clearly got an axe to grind. > There have been tons of studies done at this point with regards to vaping. Everything shows it as being safer. I haven't seen them, but there were also lots of studies that cigarette companies touted to show how safe their product was until they could no longer deny it. And seeing as how those same companies just invested a shitload…

> You're comparing vaping to getting vaccinated. You've clearly got an axe to grind. Not sure what you mean by this, but I think everyone should be vaccinated unless you have some health condition that prevents you from doing so. The reason I'm making that comparison is that there is an ongoing public debate about vaccines and long-term health effects that use very similar arguments to yours. All of our current data…

I understand the point you're making but I don't think you understand the point I'm making. If it turns out vaping is a net positive for society then I will genuinely be happy that you were right and I was wrong.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#280

Post by dntrkv »

deftnerd wrote: post #269
dntrkv wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We already know vaping causes popcorn lung. Not true. The data we have shows that it was being caused by Vitamin E acetate, which was used by off-brand THC cartridges. None of the major nicotine vapes used this chemical. Also, this attitude of "oh we don't know" could be extended to any new product anywhere, including the vaccines we are using now. All of the current data supports vaping to be significantly safer t…

Well, there also incidents about 5 years of people making vape juice with Diacetyl, a food additive that gives a creamy buttery taste. Turned out that while it was food safe, bringing it to the temperature necessary for vaping did bad things to it and it also caused "popcorn lung"

I'm sure there were even more sketchy recipes used before, but it's not an argument against vaping, it's an argument against those recipes.
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