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All public GitHub code was used in training Copilot

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Re: All public GitHub code was used in training Copilot

#191

It’s not copyright violation to train ML on content. So the license doesn’t matter unless there’s some “can’t use this for ML training” license that I don’t know about (and doesn’t seem to be legal).

> It’s not copyright violation to train ML on content.

The training is not a copyright violation. That seems to be settled case law. Whether the verbatim copying as a result of that training is a copyright violation I think is less tested.

Let’s flip the domains. Say we had an ML algorithm that could auto generate news stories and it at some point (not all the time) copied verbatim a Wall Street Journal article and posted it to a blog. Copyright violation?

With copilot, we’re sometimes seeing “paragraphs” of source lines copying verbatim, so this analogy is not such a stretch.

I think we need to think about how much our sharing culture in programming has tinted our view of the legality of this enterprise.

Re: All public GitHub code was used in training Copilot

#192
post #134

This means that also all illegally leaked codes from Apple, CDPR, Intel, NSA and Microsoft leaks are used in the models? iBoot, Witcher 3? Gwent? NSA backdoors? Does the copilot still learn from new repos? Can I post github enterprise code publicly to let it learn from it? Serious answers only please

I assume that this is a yes to most of those ? Of course using code generated by Copilot from those would still be illegal. See also : Napster (and other p2p), the bitcoin blockchain allegedly containing illegal numbers...

So copyright doesn't apply unless copyright applies.

Re: All public GitHub code was used in training Copilot

#193
post #185

If the training set contains verbatim (A)GPL code does this mean that Copilot also should be distributed by Microsoft under GPL? Because without it Copilot (as it is distributed by Microsoft) couldn't be built, wouldn't it make it a derivative work of GPL'd code (and obviously every other license)? I see a lot of people comparing human learning to machine learning in the comments, but there is a huge difference - we…

No, see Authors Guild v. Google. Even without a license or permission, fair use permits the mass scanning of books, the storage of the content of those books, and rendering verbatim snippets of those books. The Google Books site is not a derivative work of the millions of authors they copied from, and if they did copy any coincidentally GPL, AGPL, or creative commons copyleft work, the fair use exception applies before we reach the question of whether Google is obligated to provide anything beyond what it is doing.

By comparison, Copilot is even more obviously fair use.

I've had this conversation quite a few times lately, and the non-obvious thing for many developers is that fair use is an exception to copyright itself.

A license is a grant of permission (with some terms) to use a copyrighted work.

This snippet from the Linux kernel doesn't make my comment here or the website Hacker News a GPL derivative work:

    ret = vmbus_sendpacket(dev->channel, init_pkt,
        sizeof(struct nvsp_message),
        (unsigned long)init_pkt, VM_PKT_DATA_INBAND,
        VMBUS_DATA_PACKET_FLAG_COMPLETION_REQUESTED);
This snippet from an AGPL licensed project, Bitwarden, does not compel dang or pg to release the Hacker News source code:

    await _sendRepository.ReplaceAsync(send);
    await _pushService.PushSyncSendUpdateAsync(send);
    return (await _sendFileStorageService.GetSendFileDownloadUrlAsync(send, fileId), false, false);
Fair use is an exception to copyright itself. A license cannot remove your right to fair use.

The Free Software Foundation agrees (https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#GPLFairUse)

> Yes, you do. “Fair use” is use that is allowed without any special permission. Since you don't need the developers' permission for such use, you can do it regardless of what the developers said about it—in the license or elsewhere, whether that license be the GNU GPL or any other free software license.

> Note, however, that there is no world-wide principle of fair use; what kinds of use are considered “fair” varies from country to country.

(And even this verbatim copying from FSF.org for the purpose of education is... Fair use!)

Re: All public GitHub code was used in training Copilot

#194
post #134

This means that also all illegally leaked codes from Apple, CDPR, Intel, NSA and Microsoft leaks are used in the models? iBoot, Witcher 3? Gwent? NSA backdoors? Does the copilot still learn from new repos? Can I post github enterprise code publicly to let it learn from it? Serious answers only please

Has Microsoft just killed source code copyright? That would definitely be a win.

Re: All public GitHub code was used in training Copilot

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that bit I realise but the point I was getting at is this: if I take someone else's code, use chunks of it in my app, say that it's mine and make money from it is that not illegal? Or, at least in violation of the license? Superficially at least, Copilot (from my understanding) is "copying" code, letting me use it in my app, and making money from it. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it. Let's be clear, I…

Does copilot seem strange, or maybe the concept of intellectual property does?

Copilot isn't strange from a technical prespective.

The strange bit is how they are allowed to use other peoples code to create derivative works (this is how I see it from my non-legal perspective anyway).

Even if it's legal (to the letter of the law, not the spirit) it leaves a sour taste.

Re: All public GitHub code was used in training Copilot

#198
Besides, as a programmer you should not excuse yourself with "IANAL" or otherwise pass any judgment to lawyers. Lawyers are just that: lawyers. They don't hold the truth either. One lawyer says this, another lawyer says that. F*k 'm. If anything, say "IANAJ" (I Am Not A Judge). Trias politica, you gotta love it.

Re: All public GitHub code was used in training Copilot

#199

So playing devil's advocate. What if the courts just don't care, and rule that copying code verbatim is not a crime because you didn't copy it, and copilot is not a human so it can't commit crimes. What's the net effect of a system that draws upon all public code repos? It sounds... net beneficial to society? On the plus side, a large body of work effectively becomes public domain. On the negative side, copyleft lice…

Would that mean I can start sampling songs if they get fed through a neutral network? It'll be fine if I train it on whatever is playing on the radio right? Doing the same for poems?

Re: All public GitHub code was used in training Copilot

#200

It’s not copyright violation to train ML on content. So the license doesn’t matter unless there’s some “can’t use this for ML training” license that I don’t know about (and doesn’t seem to be legal).

>It’s not copyright violation to train ML on content.

I agree. It'd be a nice gesture to reach out to the creators of the training data, like is usual with web scrapers. But collecting and analyzing data publicly available on the web is ok.

>So the license doesn’t matter unless there’s some “can’t use this for ML training” license that I don’t know about (and doesn’t seem to be legal).

I disagree. While Copilot is, at heart, a ML model, the copyright trouble comes from its usage. It consumes copyright code (ok), analyzes copyright code (still ok), and then produces code which sometimes is a copy of copyright code (not ok). The only way it'd be ok is if Copilot followed all licensing requirements when it produced copies of other works.

Personally, I won't touch it for work until either Copilot abides by the licenses or there's robust case law.

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