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Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

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Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#131

Post by failwhaleshark »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #118

So Marlboro buys 35% of Juul and now Juul is advertising recklessly and inviting an e-cig ban or heavy regulation. Interesting Well here are some fun facts about the ingredients in tobacco, for comparison... The main* reason smoking causes cancer is the high amount of polonium 210, yeah, that same stuff they used to murder Litvenchenko. The reason for the presence of polonium 210 is flavour. Truly. It sounds far fetc…

Tobacco products killed about 10 of my mom's extended family members.. the macho cowboy types who didn't go to doctors.

I say make Juul and cigarettes cheaper and pack more poisons in them.

Sooner to get rid of self-absorbed, littering, cognitive dissonant, inconsiderate drug addicts, the better for the healthcare system, shorter unpleasant dying for their families, and other people's health.

Smoking is suicide on the installment plan.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#132

Post by Aldipower »

I quit to smoke after 13 years of smoking. And I was a heavy smoker. I am a non-smoker for 10y now and will never smoke again. No need for vaping or such. I think if you substitute you do not catch your addiction at the root. Vaping is really the wrong way. You need to get rid of the addiction. My main point why it was easy for me to quit finally, I hated to be controlled by an chemical. A chemical that has control over my brain? No way anymore! I've destroyed this beast. I am a free man!

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#133

Post by lolc »

Judgmentality wrote: post #99
replicatorblog wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ecigs are likely one of the most impactful public health interventions of the last 50 years. They provide a substitute that is less dangerous and pleasurable which keeps compliance high. Juul and their competitors were genius product managers paired with irresponsible to the point of malevolent product marketers. I would like someone to do a "Years of life saved" calculation that tallies the expected years save by sw…

> I would like someone to do a "Years of life saved" calculation that tallies the expected years save by switching smokers to vaping balanced against those who were attracted by vaping who eventually went to smoking. My guess is even with the new entrants the years of life saved would be extraordinary. My understanding is entire high schools are getting addicted to vaping, where before smoking was a relatively minor…

So what's the harm of vaping? As far as I know, there is some evidence of harm, but it compares very favorably to smoking. It's a different class.

To talk about "years of life lost" is quite off from what I know about it. And I never vaped, just smoked.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#134

Post by londons_explore »

A little more R&D into the ingredients of vape products could have eliminated or reduced so many of the health concerns.

I really wonder why industry didn't do that. No industry wants their own products to be banned or legislated about by regulators - and paying a few more scientists to find replacements for ingredients that cause lung cancer would seem like a no-brainer.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#135

Post by wholinator2 »

aliasEli wrote: post #111
83457 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teenagers vaping then switching to regular cigarettes is one of the big concerns.

But I really wonder if that happens frequently. Cigarettes really taste and smell awful. I discovered how terrible they really are only after I quit smoking. As long as e-cigarettes remain available, I doubt that many people would switch to real cigarettes.

Ive seen it go two ways, you start with the vape pod or all in one systems, get bored and you

1. Buy a big boy vape, roll your own coils, maintain and clean it, the whole shabang. Or 2. Smoke cigarettes

I have seen many people choose option 2. The big vape systems are sometimes large, heavy, and clunky, require sometimes very publicly dis and re assembling a little contraption, carrying juice on you, lots of things that put fellow people off. Ive seen people be ridiculed for carrying around so much vape stuff. It kinda falls into the neckbeardy categories at least for my place/time, just because the first people to do it made it their whole lives and refused to talk about anything else, it got a reputation. It's both easier and less socially risky to just buy some cigarettes.

Though I will say smoking cigarettes is not without social risk. Typically women will heavily dislike the habit except for the ones that do it themselves. I've seen whole houses get addicted to cigarettes just because one person went out to smoke when they drank every weekend. I have never seen the same phenomena with vaping. Though I very nearly missed the target generation for things like juul.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#136

Post by pope_meat »

afavour wrote: post #76
lemonberry wrote: post #34

My father has COPD from over 50 years of smoking. I convinced him to switch to vaping and he's been using a Juul for a few years now. Awhile after the switch his primary care physician listened to his lungs and said they sounded a lot better. She said she because the science isn't in "I can't tell you to vape but I can tell you to keep doing what you're doing". Should non-smokers pick up vaping? Probably not. But in…

I think if Juul was marketed as a smoking cessation product I’d have no problem with it. But it’s marketed as a lifestyle product and a ton of young people with no history of smoking have started vaping as a result.

Fun fact, if you claim to be a smoking cessation product you get the FDA at your door going "oh, so this is a medical product" and you're now obligated to prove that your product works as a medical cessation product, and requires a doctor's note to pick up. You can't market yourself as a smoking cessation product without getting the hounds of hell being unleashed on you by the regulators.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#137

Post by egeozcan »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #113
afavour wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if Juul was marketed as a smoking cessation product I’d have no problem with it. But it’s marketed as a lifestyle product and a ton of young people with no history of smoking have started vaping as a result.

But it's not a smoking cessation product. It can be used effectively as such, but it's first and foremost a healthier substitute to smoking. People like to go to both extremes wrt. vaping - "but it creates new addicts" vs. "but it's effective tool for breaking addiction", forgetting about the biggest benefit vaping brings: letting smokers who don't want to quit to keep smoking, without risking lung cancer. I'm defini…

Healthier substitute to smoking practically means a smoking cessation product. Impossible meat, likewise, is a meat "cessation" product.

If impossible meat makes vegans start eating burgers, you can't just argue "well, it's still better than meat".

> I'm definitely against marketing vaping to non-smokers.

But this is the whole point, they do attract non-smokers. They should explicitly detract them instead.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#138

Post by alsetmusic »

lemonberry wrote: post #34

My father has COPD from over 50 years of smoking. I convinced him to switch to vaping and he's been using a Juul for a few years now. Awhile after the switch his primary care physician listened to his lungs and said they sounded a lot better. She said she because the science isn't in "I can't tell you to vape but I can tell you to keep doing what you're doing". Should non-smokers pick up vaping? Probably not. But in…

I’m also a former smoker who switched to vaping as a step toward eventually quitting nicotine products. It’s been a huge improvement (I no longer smell / taste like cigarettes), and I hope it’s doing less damage to my body.

Poor behavior by Juul, marketing to youth, makes me wary that I’ll have this stopgap regulated away. I wish they’d stop bringing negative publicity to vaping as a whole. The temp ban on delivery doubled prices when they were only available in retail shops. I’m always concerned it’ll be taken from former smokers who want to quit.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#139

Post by egeozcan »

pope_meat wrote: post #136
afavour wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if Juul was marketed as a smoking cessation product I’d have no problem with it. But it’s marketed as a lifestyle product and a ton of young people with no history of smoking have started vaping as a result.

Fun fact, if you claim to be a smoking cessation product you get the FDA at your door going "oh, so this is a medical product" and you're now obligated to prove that your product works as a medical cessation product, and requires a doctor's note to pick up. You can't market yourself as a smoking cessation product without getting the hounds of hell being unleashed on you by the regulators.

Getting licensed for vaping is easier? (really asking)

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#140

Post by chrisseaton »

Aldipower wrote: post #132

I quit to smoke after 13 years of smoking. And I was a heavy smoker. I am a non-smoker for 10y now and will never smoke again. No need for vaping or such. I think if you substitute you do not catch your addiction at the root. Vaping is really the wrong way. You need to get rid of the addiction. My main point why it was easy for me to quit finally, I hated to be controlled by an chemical. A chemical that has control o…

The most harmful part of smoking is the smoke, not the addiction to nicotine. The critical thing to do is to get people off the actual smoke. However they achieve that safely, including with nicotine vaping, should be supported.
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