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Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

prospect.org

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Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#11

> Pretty much all the articles take the Juul party line that e-cigarettes help convert smokers away from combustible tobacco products, and thus aid public health. Pretty much none of the articles mention that Juul and other vaping companies make their money by attracting countless new people to nicotine addiction. Well maybe it's because Juul bought the journal or maybe the researchers found no correlation between Ju…

I mean, yeah they're a smoking cessation tool which has been taken up by non-smokers, like any other drug with somewhat recreational effects out there.

Vaping for fun can be done without nicotine, though. They could place some more visible stickers that say "Smoke only nicotine free - same fun, no stupid addiction!" or something.

And locking e-cigarettes behind a prescription would just make people continue smoking the freely available tobacco products. Nicotine patches failed to gain wide adoption in part because of that.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#12
That's quite outrageous.

If this special issue was peer-reviewed, people donated their time for free to publish 11 studies with potentially severe conflicts of interest.

If the issue was not peer-reviewed, then the editors handed out free publication for money, which is what predatory journals do.

There is no way to spin this as remotely related to good scientific practice, which would mean:

- Funding is independent of results

- Double-blind peer review

- Pre-registration wherever possible

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#13
post #10
post #4

Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. At least they made it open access. At first I thought they bought out the entire issue so that people couldn't read it.

> Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. I was unfamiliar with that term and googled it: it's described as " excessive belief in the power of scientific knowledge and techniques ". I'm struggling a bit to understand how a belief in the importance of scientific knowledge and techniques equates to a religious mindset. In an ideal world, I would absolutely prefer my government…

I'm not who you replied to, but I've experienced this with some of my friends.

Some people believe in science. They don't take the facts and understand them, they just say "Science says this is true. Anyone who disagrees needs to be shouted down." They will shame people for expressing any doubt against a "scientific consensus". This is actually the opposite of science.

For instance, the Theory of Gravity. I know people who take it to be a law, even though science itself hasn't moved it into that category. If you dare to suggest that there might be some as-yet-undiscovered mechanism for gravity, they will literally get louder and louder until you stop arguing. They won't provide any evidence, they'll just keep saying the same thing over and over.

And it happens for this that are much less certain, too.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#14
post #10
post #4

Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. At least they made it open access. At first I thought they bought out the entire issue so that people couldn't read it.

> Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. I was unfamiliar with that term and googled it: it's described as " excessive belief in the power of scientific knowledge and techniques ". I'm struggling a bit to understand how a belief in the importance of scientific knowledge and techniques equates to a religious mindset. In an ideal world, I would absolutely prefer my government…

Science is myopic by construction. Science does not consider what questions to answer, but rather tries to answer what can be answered. Science cannot tell you how to run a country or city. It can, at best, tell you how NOT to.

Over reliance on science as guidance has also lead to some of the darkest chapters of human history, like phrenology and its use to justify racial supremacy.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#15
post #3

I have followed the story of e-cigarettes and can only say it's eye opening, its probably very symptomatic to how things are done. It went from innovators and communities to being large enough that the cigarette companies responded by a smear campaign, disinformation and panic, that was then used to regulate in a way that benefited only the cigarette companies. What a transparently corrupt world we live in.

And everyone who doesn't want funny smells in their face. While since some decades cigarette smokers go outside, many ecigarette users spread funny smells without any empathy.

in Connecticut beginning 1 OCT 2021 business will require no smoking in public spaces. I know it specifically targets e-cigarette use indoors. But believe it also means no smokers outside the front of the office, or outside of the bar.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#16
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And everyone who doesn't want funny smells in their face. While since some decades cigarette smokers go outside, many ecigarette users spread funny smells without any empathy.

The smell from vaping is not comparable and it goes away quick, at least if you are not using some fancy liquid. Even if it doesn't, it's no worse than the smell of kebab which people are allowed to eat indoors.

[deleted]

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#17
post #10
post #4

Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. At least they made it open access. At first I thought they bought out the entire issue so that people couldn't read it.

> Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. I was unfamiliar with that term and googled it: it's described as " excessive belief in the power of scientific knowledge and techniques ". I'm struggling a bit to understand how a belief in the importance of scientific knowledge and techniques equates to a religious mindset. In an ideal world, I would absolutely prefer my government…

The problem is that there's facts and there's facts; if a company basically buys their way into a reputable journal and publishes peer-reviewed papers, are you trusting that as fact? I mean if you religiously believe in science / scientism, you would take the Word of a scientific paper as the Word of God, even if you should do your own research into the sources, citations, reviewers, and who paid for it.

I mean the current slew of flat earthers, anti-vaxxers/maskers, bleach eyeballers andsoforth also cite Science as their source - lending credibility to their arguments, making their thing not just emotional or gut feeling.

And religious people will take (parts of) the bible as a scientific fact as well.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#18
> But a Tuesday New York Times article on the subject contained a fascinating nugget midway through, which could be described as a buried lede (journalese for putting the most explosive part of a story in the middle of the piece).

I’m going to come down on the opposite side and say that a garbage journal that nobody reads publishing garbage research for money isn’t news. Though it is certainly a good example of why you shouldn’t believe something just because it is published.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#19
post #10
post #4

Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. At least they made it open access. At first I thought they bought out the entire issue so that people couldn't read it.

> Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. I was unfamiliar with that term and googled it: it's described as " excessive belief in the power of scientific knowledge and techniques ". I'm struggling a bit to understand how a belief in the importance of scientific knowledge and techniques equates to a religious mindset. In an ideal world, I would absolutely prefer my government…

Not OP, but I find it important to mention:

Science is not a state of knowledge.

Science is a process for getting better (or less bad) knowledge. Eventually.

I think we all agree that many studies are flawed and/or wrong. But I also think most people agree that there is a realistic expectation that we will find out over time [1]

[1] Caveat emptor: With sensible scientific methods, see my other comment on this post.

Re: Juul bought an entire issue of a scholarly journal

#20
post #10
post #4

Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. At least they made it open access. At first I thought they bought out the entire issue so that people couldn't read it.

> Scientism has become the state religion and companies are paying for indulgences. I was unfamiliar with that term and googled it: it's described as " excessive belief in the power of scientific knowledge and techniques ". I'm struggling a bit to understand how a belief in the importance of scientific knowledge and techniques equates to a religious mindset. In an ideal world, I would absolutely prefer my government…

> I'm struggling a bit to understand how a belief in the importance of scientific knowledge and techniques equates to a religious mindset.

The scientific method doesn't include the word "belief" at all. If you reduce it to belief, it's not science anymore, it's religion.

> In an ideal world, I would absolutely prefer my government to make decisions based on facts and methods of finding out more facts.

Science is a process, not a collection of hard facts. The only hard facts (or the claim of them more accurately) come from religion.

Science concerns itself with building speculative models that have predictive power, and trying to match observation with prediction of the models. Redundancy (peer review) is used to REDUCE (not ELIMINATE) errors. Social and cultural factors can result in false positives and false negatives in peer review.

That's it in a nutshell. The models don't reflect reality, they only reflect an approximation of aspects of reality in given contexts.

Anyway, the problem is that people do have a religious instinct. And when they're incapable of perceiving science with all its subtleties, they simply reduce it to a religion, which requires the belief that it's basically flawless, it provides hard facts, the best solutions, and that it's uniform (and any contradictions are just examples of "interests" corrupting it).

While politics are very corrupted and often result in incompetence rising to the top, even it weren't the case, those competent politicians have no single place to turn to to understand what "science" thinks on any given problem of society. Science isn't a guy, so it has no opinion.

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