Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

stephendiehl.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 183 posts

Re: The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

#91

Post by jiriknesl »

weikju wrote: post #50
jiriknesl wrote: post #42

> The notion that these technologies can transform financial services in any way is laughable, because there is no mechanism or specific problem they aim to address that is not currently better done with a simpler solution. Well, he hasn't obviously tried to send money from Europe to Latin America. On $2000 transaction. $25-40 bank transfer (takes up to 5 days). $80 Payoneer (can be fast, but can also take 2 days) $1…

How much to get your $2000 in and out of a bitcoin wallet/exchange?

It depends on exchange. Each has different fees.

Also, as Bitcoin is deflationary, in those 5 years, I usually got more than $2000.

But this is I guess just temporary. And if Bitcoin will grow, it will stabilize (probably) and interfacing with the world will get cheaper (both exchange to fiat or buying directly for cryptocurrencies or cryptocurrency-backed payment card).

Re: The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

#92

Post by [deleted] »

creshal wrote: post #85
neolog wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Git" application is a blockchain for decentralized management of the Linux kernel source code. The "Bitcoin" application is a tool useful for buying and selling recreational drugs without exposure to the physical risk posed by cash transactions. Edit: That is, the physical/financial risk posed to you by the other party or third-party robbers. Legal risk is probably also reduced: law-enforcement deanonymization a…

Git is not a blockchain, there's no distributed consensus algorithm. The consensus on what's the main branch and what's the authoritative history lies with Linus Torvalds. > The "Bitcoin" application is a tool useful for buying and selling recreational drugs without exposure to the physical risk posed by cash transactions. It hasn't been since at least 2018; authorities regularly seize millions worth of bitcoins toge…

[deleted]

Re: The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

#93

Post by jiriknesl »

cinntaile wrote: post #36
ddtaylor wrote: post #2

This article is borderline fear mongering against cryptocurrency.

His website has several such articles about the crypto space,they sometimes end up on HN. He's quite negative towards crypto.

I wouldn't name it quite, from all contents I have read from him, he is fanatically negative towards crypto.

Re: The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

#94

Post by intev »

skohan wrote: post #58
dave_sullivan wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This technology is only used by criminals and perverts" is a common refrain that almost always turns out to be wrong. People should relax.

It's an easily falsifiable claim if it is indeed false.

This is obviously false. "only", implying if at least one person used it for a legitimate reason that would make the statement false. There are plenty of legitimate businesses accepting bitcoin so it makes it false.

Re: The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

#95

Post by RandomLensman »

dkshdkjshdk wrote: post #88
RandomLensman wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On EURUSD, you could look at currency funds (not strictly the same, but as close as it gets) Depending on which country you are in, things like bitcoin savings accounts are starting to emerge. Also funds might be able to invest. And yes, traditional finance is starting to see value in providing services for these things (and has so for a while) - not strictly the same as seeing value in the underlyings, but separate…

Ok. So... if even traditional finance is slowly adopting these things, it kind of becomes hard to hold on to the idea that there aren't actually any use-cases outside of crime and speculation. EDIT: Just to address your edit... > On EURUSD, you could look at currency funds (not strictly the same, but as close as it gets) And will they be willing to talk to a person that only wants to put 100 EUR + 100 USD into it? I…

Wasn't my claim. And speculation is fine anyway, because it is at the heart of any new business etc.

Re: The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

#96

Post by neolog »

creshal wrote: post #85
neolog wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Git" application is a blockchain for decentralized management of the Linux kernel source code. The "Bitcoin" application is a tool useful for buying and selling recreational drugs without exposure to the physical risk posed by cash transactions. Edit: That is, the physical/financial risk posed to you by the other party or third-party robbers. Legal risk is probably also reduced: law-enforcement deanonymization a…

Git is not a blockchain, there's no distributed consensus algorithm. The consensus on what's the main branch and what's the authoritative history lies with Linus Torvalds. > The "Bitcoin" application is a tool useful for buying and selling recreational drugs without exposure to the physical risk posed by cash transactions. It hasn't been since at least 2018; authorities regularly seize millions worth of bitcoins toge…

clarified above, I mean interparty violence, not legal threat

> what's the authoritative history lies with Linus Torvalds.

I agree with your point about distributed consensus in general, but there isn't really a single authoritative history of linux, there are tons of important forks simultaneously maintained.

As for deanonymization, that doesn't seem to be very common. Compare to the rate at which people get busted by street cops for buying drugs.

Re: The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

#97

Post by skohan »

intev wrote: post #87
skohan wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree that case 1 constitutes a potentially interesting use of block-chain. 2 and 3 assume the value of BTC, which I would not take as a given.

Since you seem to be arguing in good faith I'll engage; at which point will you accept that the value of BTC is > $0? It's coming up on a decade of showing seemingly limitless upside with the bottom constantly rising. The tulip mania everyone loves to cite lasted about 3 years. This is going on for more than 3x. At what point would you consider you are maybe wrong? Personally speaking, I was on the other side of this…

There are indeed people willing to trade USD for BTC, so there is a market price for BTC. However, there are three major risks in my opinion which I think could make BTC worthless in the next 10 years:

1) There seems to be very credible evidence that Tether and other stablecoins are essentially fraud, and Tether makes up a massive portion of the BTC market cap

2) Ransomware is becoming increasingly prevalent, and has managed to compromise large institutions - it's not difficult to imagine regulatory action banning cryptocurrency as a result of this

3) Similarly, BTC is viewed by many as an unnecessary driver of fossil fuel consumption. Carbon regulation will necessarily get stronger in the next decades, and BTC may face harsh regulatory challenges because of this

Re: The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

#98

Post by dkshdkjshdk »

Marazan wrote: post #90
dkshdkjshdk wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes... and? Are people that have Bitcoin not allowed to do useful things with what they have? Does it bother you that there are actual legitimate use-cases for these things (as you seemingly admit, by not including my first example in your comment)? Someone asked for an example, and I provided a few... perhaps you don't see value in the examples I gave, but there are people out there who do.

To the question "What problem does Bitcoin solve" the answer "Without Bitcoin I would not be able to transact in Bitcoin" is not valid.

Was that even the question to begin with? Here is the comment I replied to, originally [0]. Try to find the word "Bitcoin" there.

And, again, thanks for continuing to support my point, by failing to address the fact that the first example I gave had nothing to do with BTC.

Have a nice day.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27769442

Re: The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

#99

Post by denton-scratch »

> circumventing the rule of law

I'll risk some karma here (I don't place a high value on it!)

A major use of cryptocurrencies is for drug-dealing. That is trade, and trade is normally considered to be a good thing, economically.

The "rule of law" makes possible the (non-violent) enforcement of contracts, so it facilitates trade. But it's prefectly possible to trade without relying on access to courts; in many places, the courts are corrupt, or the system is so slow as to be useless. But trade goes on.

I'm stuck to think of any other way in which the "rule of law" confers economic value, and the war against drugs clearly reduces economic output.

I'm not taking a position on whether the drugs trade is more or less reprehensible than (e.g.) the trade in fossil fuels. But it happens, and it's been happening ever since Prohibition and Reefer Madness; apparently "rule of law" doesn't rule very effectively.

Re: The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency

#100

Post by skohan »

dkshdkjshdk wrote: post #86
skohan wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what's wrong with assuming that 1 BTC is worth 1 BTC now and forever? Because if 1 BTC = 0 USD, and has no real-world utility outside of speculation, there is no compelling reason to try to acquire more BTC.

> Because if 1 BTC = 0 USD... A big assumption here. I can also hypothesize that 1 USD = 0 EUR, at some point in the future, and, thus, holding or buying USD is pure speculation and there is no compelling reason to try to acquire more USD. Under this logic, I shouldn't ever buy or hold anything (forex, stocks, etc.), lest its market value goes to zero. Also, thanks for ignoring the rest of my point: What if I choose…

For 1 USD = 0 EUR to become a reality, we would have to imagine a massive geopolitical shift has taken place.

For 1 BTC = 0 USD, all you need is one government, which has been the victim or ransomware attacks, to regulate BTC out of existence.

Post reply on HN