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The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

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Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#231
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't land-based telescopes already use larger mirrors than any space telescope?

Can you launch those mirrors into space on a rocket without them turning into very fine glass dust? Cuz I bet a lot of mirrors in land-based telescopes would simply shatter or break on a launch.

Haven't a clue. It's an interesting question. What kind of materials they're made out of (weight considerations?), what kind of forces they can take, what kind of support structures they require, etc.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#232
post #191

It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways. Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not lau…

> Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft Short life-span? How long has the Hubble been up there?

It’s the telescope of Theseus, though.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phone cameras don’t have multiple lenses working together that you can interpolate between to create a single giant virtual lens. The technique OP is referring to is already used for the largest ground based radio telescopes.

Well, a lot of phones do have multiple sensors and lenses. For example, the iPhone's computational depth effect uses multiple cameras for a single shot.

That’s qualitatively different from the kind of stitching together that happens with, e.g. the VLA. The computational limits of phone photography don’t apply here.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft Short life-span? How long has the Hubble been up there?

It’s the telescope of Theseus, though.

Because some component bays designed to be swapped out were swapped out? Far as I know they haven’t replaced the 2.4m main mirror or the housing, you know, the “ship”

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#235
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if this computational photography vision is years away, JWST might still become obsolete quickly. SpaceX's Starship would be able carry telescopes than JWST as a single piece. This would dramatically simplify development and increase optical quality.

The challenges in building a mirror that size is enormous and take years. It is not only fairing size that is limiting

why not build the mirror in space? I bet microgravity could help with some of the challenges of building one.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft Short life-span? How long has the Hubble been up there?

It’s the telescope of Theseus, though.

Sort of. The broken optics famously got fixed in the first HST shuttle mission, and there have been other replacements over time. A lot of it is the same, though.

And of course, the HST is in LEO, which means it is reachable with current rocket tech, which the James Webb, being situated at L2 won't be. But that's not to say you could not have a large platform at L2 (or another Lagrange point) that could be serviced by robots, or even manned craft, if it was designed that way.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#237
post #191

It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways. Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not lau…

> Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft Short life-span? How long has the Hubble been up there?

webb needs to use thrusters to stay in position. there’s 5 years worth of fuel onboard

they did design the fuel in a way that potentially could be refilled… but the refilling craft doesn’t exist. and webb timescales make that sound impossible

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#238
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The F-22 was sufficient for threat mitigation. The F-35 raison d'être was cost reduction, after that was exportability which again was supposed to help with cost reduction. Edit; comparing the logic of a 'but for' vs a 'necessary' condition. Was the F-35 necessary for threat mitigation. No. Was it framed as the necessary for cost savings, yes.

Your oversimplifying and missing a lot. The F-35 is not a replacement or substitute for the F-22. The F-22 is an air superiority fighter. The F-35 is a multi role strike aircraft. The F-22 would never be allowed for export, because it has features we don't want to share even with allies. The F-35 was designed for export to allies from day one. There's no scenario where just buying more F-22's made more sense than bui…

The F-35's problems as I understand it stem principally from the Navy wanting a VTOL craft. That whole system seems to be front and center when "stuff not working" comes up.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#239
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your oversimplifying and missing a lot. The F-35 is not a replacement or substitute for the F-22. The F-22 is an air superiority fighter. The F-35 is a multi role strike aircraft. The F-22 would never be allowed for export, because it has features we don't want to share even with allies. The F-35 was designed for export to allies from day one. There's no scenario where just buying more F-22's made more sense than bui…

The F-35's problems as I understand it stem principally from the Navy wanting a VTOL craft. That whole system seems to be front and center when "stuff not working" comes up.

Marines not Navy, though they're a sub org of the Navy so a reasonable thing to say.

There's a Rand study on it. They concluded that the attempts at commonality didn't just fail, they proved counterproductive. They did a historical review of joint acquisition programs and found basically all of them hit the same flaw. As appealing as it may seem to congress, it's a bad strategy.

The F-35's problems as far as budget and schedule slippage were largely in the software section, and a lot of that goes back to structuring it as a single source cost plus contract. That incentivized LM to make the project as big and delayed as possible.

LM is infamous for this sort of thing. They turned Aegis into a clown circus of a billion different ship specific variants where they could charge N times to fix the same flaw in different nearly identical codebases. The Navy has been trying to extract themselves from it for like 2 decades now, with some signs of success finally showing up.

In short, LM is behaving in bad faith. This is unsurprising. They basically invented these tactics some decades back.

Back when Ash Carter was Sec Def, he called in LM and demanded they start hitting the promised numbers on marginal airframe costs. Reportedly the conversation went something like "do this or we'll curtail our buy" to which LM responded "by how much?" As replied "how about none?"

Suddenly they started hitting the numbers, surprise surprise.

We're about to have the same conversation about sustainment costs. I hope Austin drives as hard a bargain.

If you've read any of the limited info coming out about some of the AF's new projects like the B-21 or NGAD, it's pretty clear they took the lessons from the F-35 to heart and are using a very different approach, one where they hold the reigns of integration and can create competition at any time.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#240
post #191

It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways. Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not lau…

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