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Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

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Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#421

Post by noduerme »

blfr wrote: post #215
saithound wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then, this is a gov't that does not trust its citizens to raise their own children, or even historically to decide how many kids to have. The Chinese government is worse than most others, but not for this reason. All governments and societies make all kinds of "tyrannical" rules about raising children, in the name of limiting harm to children. This is no different. In Germany, the government does not trust pare…

In the US, legal adults between the ages of 18 and 21 can decide to join the Army, travel to exotic lands and die there. The same adults are not trusted to make the decision of buying and drinking beer. They're trusted to join the Army which includes fairly strict supervision from the chain of command. This is more akin to drinking with your parents than going off by yourself.

Voting and drinking ages used to both be 21. Notably, around 1969-1971 during the height of the Vietnam draft, 30 states lowered their drinking and voting ages to 18. Most of these went back to a drinking age of 21 by the early 1980s, but voting remained at 18. It was directly due to pressure from the anti-war movement.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#422

Post by noduerme »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #394
saithound wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are. Examples that immediately come to mind: - Anyone driving a large vehicle for more than 9 hours per day, 56 in a week, and 90 over a two-week period in the European Union. - Adults using a tanning under a sunlamp for more than one cycle in a 24 hour period in many countries (others, such as Australia, did ban them entirely). - Children spending more than 10 hours per day in child care centers in many U…

Australia also has limits on heavy vehicle driving hours, and cameras on the main highways to enforce them.

Plus they have those ridiculous billboards every 10km that say "are you sleepy yet?" Australia's social nudging really freaks me out.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#423

Post by calsy »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #419
calsy wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

‘My parents used to do it’, is also a poor standard to work from. Those incidents I mentioned occurred in Australia. ‘Well the incident rate is low’, that’s because almost all parents take their kids with them. If we all decided to start leaving kids in cars then the number of incidents would increase. You live in a community, if you take actions generally frowned upon by the majority of people, like it or not you wi…

“ You live in a community, if you take actions generally frowned upon by the majority of people, like it or not you will possibly receive some negative consequences, especially if it involves children. ” This is the logic used by people who call the police on children walking to the park without an adult. These are commonly people who watch a lot of news (and are therefore more misinformed according to multiple studi…

Stop pretending you're more 'informed' then others or an expert on risk management. You think leaving multiple kids in a car with the engine on is effective risk management. Now you're trying to convince us it's weird that someone would ring the police if they saw a child wandering the streets without a parent. So they are too young to manage a carpark and its best they stay locked in a car, but letting them wonder off to the park on their own across how many roads is fine. People who would be concerned are generally stupid and watch too much news.

This is all one big joke. I think I'm about finished arguing the absurd.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#424

Post by noduerme »

araneae wrote: post #350
saithound wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then, this is a gov't that does not trust its citizens to raise their own children, or even historically to decide how many kids to have. The Chinese government is worse than most others, but not for this reason. All governments and societies make all kinds of "tyrannical" rules about raising children, in the name of limiting harm to children. This is no different. In Germany, the government does not trust pare…

I feel like this is very different in kind. Are there any other countries that enforce a daily time limit on an activity, whether for children or adults? It seems either an activity (like smoking) is typically banned entirely or allowed; having it be partially allowed like this is difficult to enforce and consequently invites weird and invasive measures like these.

You're allowed have sex. You're allowed to give someone money. But you're not give someone sex for money.

What China has done is take an arbitrary, ridiculous rule like that, and make it even more absurd. Imagine if they said that after 30 minutes, a massage is by definition sex. And if you do it more than 90 minutes a week, it's sex addiction.

It's just arbitrary ways of controlling the populace. I doubt if they care whether kids play games. It's just a way to start facial recognition for the social credit system early.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#425

Post by noduerme »

saithound wrote: post #379
araneae wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is very different in kind. Are there any other countries that enforce a daily time limit on an activity, whether for children or adults? It seems either an activity (like smoking) is typically banned entirely or allowed; having it be partially allowed like this is difficult to enforce and consequently invites weird and invasive measures like these.

Yes, there are. Examples that immediately come to mind: - Anyone driving a large vehicle for more than 9 hours per day, 56 in a week, and 90 over a two-week period in the European Union. - Adults using a tanning under a sunlamp for more than one cycle in a 24 hour period in many countries (others, such as Australia, did ban them entirely). - Children spending more than 10 hours per day in child care centers in many U…

All of your examples limit or prescribe hours of work. This implies that the remaining time is free. There is a fundamental difference between telling a minor what they have to do some hours of the day - e.g. go to school - and telling them how they must apportion the entire rest of their time when they've finished their work. "Free time" loses meaning if it's all surveilled and controlled. Truckers don't have to be watched when they're not driving. Adults, too, have all their time free when not working, to waste or use productively as they please. To say you're limited to the remaining 19 hours of the day just means you have 19 hours of free time. It's no longer free time if the government begins to restrict it for reasons that are outside its remit.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#426

Post by noduerme »

Symbiote wrote: post #185
saithound wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to name at least one government or society which has no such rules. All societies have them, and many such rules are widely accepted by the societies that have them as beneficial. E.g. such laws are the reason parents are not allowed to expose their children to obscene images, even if the parents really are convinced that doing so would benefit their children.

Perhaps an example of a rule or law a European country has, but China doesn't. I think one example is the age of consent, which is 14 in China, lower than most of Europe and the USA. It's a good alternative to video games...

taken together it sounds like a last-ditch effort to up their birth rate!

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#427

Post by noduerme »

HeavenFox wrote: post #393
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on what you mean by "everyone is an internet addict"? I mean in the examples you gave, you mention the children skipped school - which is a problem. The article and some other commenters mention a nighttime gaming ban - which is a reaction to kids staying up at night to play video games. Clearly there IS a problem, and the Chinese government has this way of solving it. In the west there's similar solut…

It's a problem of phrasing. Back then, for an average person, there wasn't much to do on the Internet, except online games and chatting with friends, both of which are considered a waste of time. As a result, Internet itself was demonized, and Internet addiction was considered a problem, even a mental disorder. Nowadays, China has a booming tech sector. Everyone is using the Internet all the time to browse TikTok vid…

Well, it's a problem of phrasing, but the other issue is the CCP wants any reason to put facial recognition in people's homes. Since taking a sledgehammer to a social issue like children's screen-time will cause no appreciable backlash among anyone who can't be sent to a slave camp, they can kill two birds with one stone by harnessing gaming addiction to a total panopticon. You can already go to prison there for using your phone to access Playboy magazine or the NYT, so, why not. It's their casino, and if you don't like it, see how you like your kneecaps.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#428

Post by noduerme »

karmasimida wrote: post #290
jbluepolarbear wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they do to people that can’t conform?

There isn't much a kid can do to not conform. Beating up by your parents are pretty common in China, and nobody gives a flying f--k about what you do with you kids. People would praise you for deploying violence, because that shows you are a strict parent, and the level of willingness you would spend on 'rectifying' the behavior of your kids. And the parents would always tell the kids the violence right now is good f…

In all societies, people don't care what you do with your kids if you beat them up. But they care a lot what you do with your kids, if you teach your kids to question authority. When I grew up we were taught that police were basically stupid, pathetic authoritarians with no power, who needed to hold weapons to prove they had little dicks. We were taught that anyone who claimed to know something about "God" was a fraud. And we were taught never to say these things in public, because the government would put us in a foster home and Dad and Mom would get arrested.

[edit] We were also taught that marijuana and other drugs help you relax and be creative, that sex within a loving relationship is a good thing, that there's nothing wrong with pornography, that prostitution is an important outlet for sexually repressed men who would otherwise become violent, and that guns are for idiots who can't talk their way out of problems. All of these are still very dangerous views in most of the world.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#429

Post by AussieWog93 »

godelski wrote: post #401
AussieWog93 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is it simply power? What is the point of it? You can read my post history; I'm anything but a Chinese Nationalist and Xi lover. Still, I don't think this law is crazy. It clearly serves a purpose of protecting children from harm. The enforcement is creepy, but as a law I don't see it as any different to the laws about parents supplying alcohol to minors in Australia.

I don't know, I don't think putting cameras in minors' rooms is going to keep them safe. That just screams exploitation to me. Either Tencent is hacked, Tencent accidentally gathers those images, or someone hacks the cameras because now you have millions of people that leave their cameras facing them at all times. None of those are a great situation and the likelihood of each of those happening isn't low. This is wit…

>I don't think putting cameras in minors' rooms is going to keep them safe

I wasn't referring to the cameras (" The enforcement is creepy"...), but it does make sense why a government would want to pass laws limiting gaming/screen use late at night amongst teenagers.

I went through it as a teenager and the lack of sleep causes all kinds of mental health and behavioural issues.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#430

Post by noduerme »

derefr wrote: post #380
nefitty wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would take me some time to dive into the prevalence of abusive “therapies” or what every day life is for autistic people in China. I did find this report about a rehabilitation center that forces autistic children to walk 19km (12 miles) per day as part of their treatment. It gained notoriety after a 3-year old died while in the center. https://www.sixthtone.com/news/811/toddler-jia-jias-death-hi...

That does sound more like it. My point was that this type of pseudo-“rehabilitation” can’t really be conflated with pseudo-“re-education.” No matter how abusive these rehabilitation centres are, they still have staff and facilities that the POW-camp-like environment of a re-education facility doesn’t (and probably cost a lot more to run.) Similar to the difference between state prisons and state mental asylums in Ame…

Because people who can't conform are a lot less dangerous than people who won't.
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