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The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

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201–210 of 301 posts

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#201
post #47

Does anyone remember the initial proposals for this. The cost was supposed to be $500M. At most something like $1B. Given this is standard govt contracting - I'm sure it's come out much higher.

Wait until you see what they claimed the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were supposed to cost....

And what the ROI is. Tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dead people and stalling the taliban for a little bit versus unlocking mysteries into the origins of the universe

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#202
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact boy covered it a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CowU0QK0Pjs&ab_channel=Megap... From what i remember this project has been running since around the time of Hubble Still.... Can't wait for it to get up there, money and time well spent!

That's pretty amazing. A financial black hole. A cool project, but if you think of the thousands of folks who didn't get funding so this thing could gobble everything up - these projects really become crazy budget wise (SLS did the same path). I wish they would do pay for performance deals. We'll give you $4B if you put a telescope in space of X size that meets some basic specs. If you look at commercial side, space…

This is the strength of NASA. They can do crazy one offs rather than having to build financially feasible platforms all the time

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#203
post #191

It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways. Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not lau…

As already said, the problem is in coordination of multiple telescopes in spacetime.

It might be better to build one giant telescope piecemeal, by adding more and more small mirrors. A similar approach is taken by several terrestrial telescopes.

It would still be very interesting to have a few space telescopes distributed across the Solar system, much wider than the Earth orbit. It could give a sort of stereoscopic picture of closest star systems, even though "simultaneous" observation would be ill-defined for them.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#204
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The L2 point is unstable with a period of 23 days? I believe, so the JWT needs a course correct burn to stay positioned correctly (called station keeping). It does have thrusters - a ring of 16 hydrazine "burning" units that can produce thrust on 3 axis. The fact that the L2 point is unstable and that thrusters are required puts a lifetime on the telescope - I think NASA plans for a minimum of 5 1/2 years and are hop…

> The fact that the L2 point is unstable and that thrusters are required puts a lifetime on the telescope - I think NASA plans for a minimum of 5 1/2 years and are hoping to get up to 10. That's entirely reliant on the fuel supply. So when the fuel is exhausted the orbit decays and the unshielded telescope disintegrates on re-entry into Earth's atmosphere?

> So when the fuel is exhausted the orbit decays and the unshielded telescope disintegrates on re-entry into Earth's atmosphere?

Or drifts off into its own orbit around the Sun, but essentially yes.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#205
post #191

It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways. Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not lau…

Phone cameras show both the power and limits of computational photography. You can’t run away from physics forever.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#206
post #191

It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways. Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not lau…

Phone cameras show both the power and limits of computational photography. You can’t run away from physics forever.

Phone cameras don’t have multiple lenses working together that you can interpolate between to create a single giant virtual lens. The technique OP is referring to is already used for the largest ground based radio telescopes.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#207
post #196
post #191

It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways. Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not lau…

You need exceedingly accurate timing and transmission to do computational inference with multiple telescopes. Even minuscule errors will wreck the entire effort. It is very, very hard even with only three telescopes on earth, nevermind a hundred hurtling around in orbit communicating with lasers. The people who work on these things aren’t morons, and everyone knows the scaling factor of multiple receivers. It’s just…

Sure it's hard, bit I'm not really even proposing anything new. Labeyrie has proposed such a fleet, but raw economics have put it off, not technology -- I'd hardly call him a slouch in astronomical interferometry.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#208
post #191

It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways. Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not lau…

Even if this computational photography vision is years away, JWST might still become obsolete quickly.

SpaceX's Starship would be able carry telescopes than JWST as a single piece. This would dramatically simplify development and increase optical quality.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phone cameras show both the power and limits of computational photography. You can’t run away from physics forever.

Phone cameras don’t have multiple lenses working together that you can interpolate between to create a single giant virtual lens. The technique OP is referring to is already used for the largest ground based radio telescopes.

Exactly correct. And Labeyrie has a design in place for the exact type of fleet I'm talking about.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#210
post #208
post #191

It's my personal belief that these massive R&D space telescope programs are nearing their end. Computational approaches among multiple sensors, combined with good 'ol factory mass manufacturing powered by low-cost reusable launch technology allows for the money spent on one-shot programs like this to be spent and allocated in radical different ways. Instead of building one huge short life-span spacecraft, why not lau…

Even if this computational photography vision is years away, JWST might still become obsolete quickly. SpaceX's Starship would be able carry telescopes than JWST as a single piece. This would dramatically simplify development and increase optical quality.

The challenges in building a mirror that size is enormous and take years.

It is not only fairing size that is limiting

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