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Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

www2.law.ucla.edu

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Re: Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

#71
post #40
post #22

My biggest technical issue with this "common carrier" movement is spam. The author mentions it, but seems to suggest that users can simply block or ignore spammers. As somebody who witnessed the commercialization of the internet, I find this extremely naive. We generally think of email as a "common carrier," but even there, spam is blocked. Blocking spam is censorship. Failure to automatically detect 1% of spam will…

I think the biggest problem is less spam and more harassment. Simply blocking harassers isn't as effective as blocking spam due to the way social networks generally work. The harasser can just move on to your connections which is potentially even worse than them harassing you. Imagine an ex-partner sending revenge poor to all your contacts. Fighting that requires the ability for users to report potential bad actors a…

Or not making porn.

Re: Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

#72
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest problem is less spam and more harassment. Simply blocking harassers isn't as effective as blocking spam due to the way social networks generally work. The harasser can just move on to your connections which is potentially even worse than them harassing you. Imagine an ex-partner sending revenge poor to all your contacts. Fighting that requires the ability for users to report potential bad actors a…

Or not making porn.

[deleted]

Re: Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you will be surprised at how DISENGAGED folks are vis a vis a phone call on their AT&T line. Why? Because a damn ton of them are spam / scams. So yes, ATT doesn't filter calls, and users have learned not to answer them.

The phone system is a failure of innovation. Some kind of caller id should be mandatory. There is no technical reason something akin to DNS for phone numbers can't exist. Phone companies would rather cash checks than innovate.

Unspoofable caller ID is belatedly happening with STIR/SHAKEN but in general your point stands.

Re: Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

#74

Be careful what you wish for. If social media platforms are considered common carriers they will have a 'duty to serve." They will need to provide their service to anyone not judged by a court to be breaking the law. That includes spam, pornography, and many forms of online abuse and harassment. There is a strong case to be made that ISPs should be common carriers, since they don't (and should not) know what is conta…

The point of this paper is that bad stuff would exist but you'd never see it unless you explicitly seek it out. You might not even be able to search for it; you might have to paste an exact URL to get it.

Re: Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

#75
These social media platforms don’t act like common carriers.

It’s a fundamental necessity of the business that social media platforms be able to deliver enough good content that users want to join and engage while filtering out enough bad content that users don’t get fed up and leave.

So they implement all kinds of mechanisms designed to promote and emphasize “good” content and minimize “bad” content. It’s important to understand that “good” means good for business and “bad” means bad for business, and of course there are sometimes short-term vs long-term considerations to balance.

Mechanisms like search rank algorithms, retweets, comments, likes, content policies, moderation, flags, bans, etc.

If the government takes some of these mechanisms away from a social media platform they will (1) fundamentally change the nature of the social media platform — quite possibly breaking what made it a desirable place to share in the first place; (2) prevent these companies from making business decisions in their own business interests.

Imagine HN with no moderation, or your favorite narrow-interest subreddits full of spam and political posts with no one allowed to moderate them or ban the crap posters. It entirely defeats the purpose.

Is this really what we want?

Also, remember that platforms much more permissive than the big social media platforms exist that are accessible over the same internet, not to mention plain old web sites. So what exactly is the need to force, say Facebook or Twitter to have very permissive content policies?

I think what many people concerned with this actually want is for social media platforms to continue to moderate and filter bad content and promote good content, but they want to tell the platform what “good” and “bad” mean according to their own opinions rather than letting them determine that for themselves.

Re: Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

#76
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

User has control over what is marked as spam, and can see spam messages if needed. If you block some content the way gmail blocks spam, it won't be censorship.

> If you block some content the way gmail blocks spam, it won't be censorship. Are you thinking of the spam folder? Because the primary way that gmail blocks "spam" is by never delivering the email at all. Not to your spam folder, not anywhere. I learned about this when I was unable to receive email from a personal friend.

Yes i was talking about the spam folder, i have never heard about this other way of blocking, and can't find anything about it on the internet. Is this behaviour documented anywhere?

Re: Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

#77
post #75

These social media platforms don’t act like common carriers. It’s a fundamental necessity of the business that social media platforms be able to deliver enough good content that users want to join and engage while filtering out enough bad content that users don’t get fed up and leave. So they implement all kinds of mechanisms designed to promote and emphasize “good” content and minimize “bad” content. It’s important…

But all that spam would come into play with "generic" feeds. You don't expect spam from people, groups and organizations that you subscribe to.

You can think of "discovery feeds" as an addon - and maybe even not provided by the same company providing the social network itself.

Cherry on top? You would have to actively subscribe to those feeds, forcing them to be interesting/relevant.

Re: Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

#78
post #74

Be careful what you wish for. If social media platforms are considered common carriers they will have a 'duty to serve." They will need to provide their service to anyone not judged by a court to be breaking the law. That includes spam, pornography, and many forms of online abuse and harassment. There is a strong case to be made that ISPs should be common carriers, since they don't (and should not) know what is conta…

The point of this paper is that bad stuff would exist but you'd never see it unless you explicitly seek it out. You might not even be able to search for it; you might have to paste an exact URL to get it.

How is any of what you described different from the situation today? Except that said URL won't contain a TwitFace domain name if they don't want you on their platform.

Is the domain name really that important, so long as the content is available?

Re: Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

#79
post #40
post #22

My biggest technical issue with this "common carrier" movement is spam. The author mentions it, but seems to suggest that users can simply block or ignore spammers. As somebody who witnessed the commercialization of the internet, I find this extremely naive. We generally think of email as a "common carrier," but even there, spam is blocked. Blocking spam is censorship. Failure to automatically detect 1% of spam will…

I think the biggest problem is less spam and more harassment. Simply blocking harassers isn't as effective as blocking spam due to the way social networks generally work. The harasser can just move on to your connections which is potentially even worse than them harassing you. Imagine an ex-partner sending revenge poor to all your contacts. Fighting that requires the ability for users to report potential bad actors a…

He could just have done that using phone calls or standard mail. The government handles those cases, we don't expect phone or post companies to inspect what we send and ban us if they don't like what we send.

Re: Social Media Platforms as Common Carriers? [pdf]

#80
post #75

These social media platforms don’t act like common carriers. It’s a fundamental necessity of the business that social media platforms be able to deliver enough good content that users want to join and engage while filtering out enough bad content that users don’t get fed up and leave. So they implement all kinds of mechanisms designed to promote and emphasize “good” content and minimize “bad” content. It’s important…

> be able to deliver enough good content that users want

> Is this really what we want?

There is a pretty simple solution to this. Leave these decisions in the hands of an individual user's choice.

I am sure that there would be some kinks that need to be worked out. But coming at these problems from the perspective of allowing a user to choose different spam/block parameters or algorithms, of their own choice, and letting the market decide what users really want.

I am sure that most people would voluntarily choose certain general spam blocking settings, without the need for the platform to make every decision for the user.

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