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The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

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Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#61

Post by ultramegachurch »

jl6 wrote: post #54

If the JWST survives launch but has a subsequent mechanical problem that prevents it deploying properly (and it’s the kind of problem that would have been fixable on Hubble, using a shuttle mission) would it be feasible to mount a robotic rescue mission to chase it down and remote-hands it back to life? For less than the cost of just launching another JWST?

Highly unlikely. That would require designing a new spacecraft from the ground up while also developing new robotics and operations technologies. I'd peg that mission at $300 - $500 million. NASA would almost certainty be better off documenting lessons learned and pursuing a new observatory.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#63

Post by DubiousPusher »

tomschlick wrote: post #11
tectonic wrote: post #3

Such an exciting, and high stakes, and dramatically late and over-budget mission.

Government red tape and contracting at its finest Edit: Downvotes with no comments as to why... This thing is 24 years in development and 20x over budget. If thats not a failure of government contracting, budgeting, etc then idk what is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope#Cos... - Obviously the platform will be cool once they get it launched, but until then its just a money pit.

It's because this is a flippant, unhelpful attitude. If we were talking about building a mile of blacktop highway then such a casual observation about the overrun might be warranted.

But we're not talking about that. We're talking about building the first non-orbital space telescope in human history. To a certain extent, no one could know the actual cost ahead of time. It's one of those things you kind of have to do and it will cost what it will cost.

Was there waste I this project? Probably. But there's a good chance the overruns are dominated by true "found work" rather than waste.

In fact, this is exactly the kind of project you want handled by the government because the cost of failure is so high. In a project where you need to push the risk out as many decimal places as possible it is good to have an agency which can afford the overruns to do it.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#64

Post by DubiousPusher »

gamblor956 wrote: post #40
tomschlick wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government red tape and contracting at its finest Edit: Downvotes with no comments as to why... This thing is 24 years in development and 20x over budget. If thats not a failure of government contracting, budgeting, etc then idk what is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope#Cos... - Obviously the platform will be cool once they get it launched, but until then its just a money pit.

The original budget was a guess. They didn't know how much the telescope would cost because the required technology didn't actually exist at the start of the budgeting process 24 years ago. Now that technology does exist, and it turns out it's quite expensive, which drove most of the cost increases. However, since then the budget increases have generally paced with inflation. Source: your citation.

Further to your point, now that the pioneering work has been done, a similar piece of equipment could likely be built at a significantly reduced cost.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#65

Post by DubiousPusher »

systemvoltage wrote: post #14
tomschlick wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government red tape and contracting at its finest Edit: Downvotes with no comments as to why... This thing is 24 years in development and 20x over budget. If thats not a failure of government contracting, budgeting, etc then idk what is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope#Cos... - Obviously the platform will be cool once they get it launched, but until then its just a money pit.

Another way to put it is that it’s a jobs program. Edit: what’s with the downvotes? I would like to understand what the disagreement is here. Any gov program can be split up into two parts. One, the actual cost as dictated by the market economy, and second, the additional costs for delays, bureaucracy, etc which usually tends to be multiples of the actual costs. This money goes into paying salaries without actually m…

By that logic, so is the military, public schools and highway maintenance.

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#66

Post by sitkack »

Goety wrote: post #10
tectonic wrote: post #3

Such an exciting, and high stakes, and dramatically late and over-budget mission.

I am so amped for this telescope. I hope it exceeds my expectations. It also looks like this location will be quite crowded in the future https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_objects_at_Lagrange_po...

We really should have a big science lab up at L2

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#68

Post by minikites »

tomschlick wrote: post #11
tectonic wrote: post #3

Such an exciting, and high stakes, and dramatically late and over-budget mission.

Government red tape and contracting at its finest Edit: Downvotes with no comments as to why... This thing is 24 years in development and 20x over budget. If thats not a failure of government contracting, budgeting, etc then idk what is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Webb_Space_Telescope#Cos... - Obviously the platform will be cool once they get it launched, but until then its just a money pit.

Where are all of the privately funded space telescopes?

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#69

Post by endymi0n »

While it‘s awesome to finally see the JWST finally come to close to launch after all those years, now it‘s a close race between it and SpaceX Starship that could have taken the 6.5 meter mirror up to space in one whole piece in its 9m diameter belly rather than having to do all the miraculous origami that took two decades to develop in the first place…

Re: The James Webb Space Telescope has passed the final mission analysis review

#70

Post by minikites »

endymi0n wrote: post #69

While it‘s awesome to finally see the JWST finally come to close to launch after all those years, now it‘s a close race between it and SpaceX Starship that could have taken the 6.5 meter mirror up to space in one whole piece in its 9m diameter belly rather than having to do all the miraculous origami that took two decades to develop in the first place…

I wouldn't trust any payload on a SpaceX ship given their track record.
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