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What really happened to Jack Ma?

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Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#161

Post by rorykoehler »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #155
rorykoehler wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually sticking your head in the sand is condoning behaviour. I understand your perspective however given YC's conflict of interest due to investing in Chinese companies I think it would be prudent to stick YC's flag in the ground. Inaction and fence-sitting is radically political too.

FYI, asserting that ‘inaction’ is a politically radical act is in fact a fringe belief. In the end, remember that politics is preference, and that whoever is in power gets to assert their preferences more.

At some stage not taking a position is a position in itself, especially in matters of existential threat.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#162

Post by baybal2 »

TwoFerMaggie wrote: post #126
Bojui wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if Xi kicks the can tomorrow? How smooth is the transition going to be? China is so massive I cant understand how they dont have multiple power centers bumping into each other all the time.

Well last time there was a "successor problem" China went through a decade-long political and economic turmoil that was the Cultural Revolution. Having experienced that first hand, Deng implemented the term limit, so that there won't be a position of absolute power for the rest of one's life (it's just too much a temptation and thus recipe for chaos every 20-30 years or so). Now that the term limit is gone, I don't t…

> Having experienced that first hand, Deng implemented the term limit

No... the man had zero sympathies for the civil state.

He just planned to stay in power way longer, and organised it so that all senior party men coming after him will be in compromised positions.

Similarly, Jiang never left the power on good terms, but with a hefty pack of compromising info on party elites, and arranging for new coming leadership being very weak.

Only Hu possibly left the power unconditionally, and without any power left, but only because he was weak.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#163

Post by MsMowz »

Bojui wrote: post #25
Traster wrote: post #18

I think this, in combination with the author's previous article about the moves the CCP have made on Ma's business make it pretty clear what is happening. Ma is being held whilst his businesses are dismantled. Ant is being turned into a traditional bank, Alibaba is being attacked from several directions, Ma's university (a clear source of soft power) is being shut down. When you then ask where Ma is I would say it's…

What happens if Xi kicks the can tomorrow? How smooth is the transition going to be? China is so massive I cant understand how they dont have multiple power centers bumping into each other all the time.

The centralized, unitary structure of the Chinese government and the CPC make it unlikely that there will be a power struggle — there aren't many levers that would-be power players have to pull to achieve their goals (unlike after the Death of Mao, by contrast). Xi holds three positions of authority in China, and it's unlikely that anyone would immediately replace him in all three, as it's only happened in his case because of the confidence that the membership of the CPC has in his faction.

The next General Secretary of the party and Chairman of the CMC would both be elected by the party's Central Committee. Whoever is selected as General Secretary will most likely also be chosen as President, since this is mostly a ceremonial role. The majority of the Central Committee are in the same faction as Xi is currently, so it seems more likely than not that they'll find people from within their ranks to fill these positions and attempt to strengthen the collective leadership.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#164

Post by mthoms »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #102
drumhead wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Medieval. The Crown accuses you of corruption/sedition/treachery, prosecutes you then confiscates your property as a fine. A bit like Henry 7th in England during his reign. Also a bit like Putin against any oligarchs who dared to oppose him. But then I suppose its a standard pattern of behaviour to give their actions the sheen of lawfulness.

Or like civil forfeiture, the only difference is how rich the victims are.

That's quite a stretch. In civil forfeiture the victim isn't disappeared/re-educated.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#165

Post by MsMowz »

TwoFerMaggie wrote: post #126
Bojui wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if Xi kicks the can tomorrow? How smooth is the transition going to be? China is so massive I cant understand how they dont have multiple power centers bumping into each other all the time.

Well last time there was a "successor problem" China went through a decade-long political and economic turmoil that was the Cultural Revolution. Having experienced that first hand, Deng implemented the term limit, so that there won't be a position of absolute power for the rest of one's life (it's just too much a temptation and thus recipe for chaos every 20-30 years or so). Now that the term limit is gone, I don't t…

This overlooks many changes that have occurred in the recent decades, such as the restructuring of the PLA (including their decoupling from state business), the development of the socialist market economy, and the further development of the rank and file organization of the party. All of these give structure and order where they didn't exist before. The leadership roles in the party have never been less significant within Chinese internal politics, as the collective leadership has been strengthening for the last three decades.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#166

Post by null_shift »

Smithalicious wrote: post #159
Jochim wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of intriguing to me because, as a member of a western society, I think we place largely the same expectations on people to conform, the only difference is in how the enforcement is applied. In many countries, cities, and neighbourhoods in "the west" if you aren't white you experience exactly the kind of insecurity you describe elsewhere. There are plenty of incidents where non-white residents are arrested w…

What about all the neighborhoods that are dangerous to white people? I white person has a higher chance of getting in serious danger in a majority black ghetto than a black person would in virtually any majority white neighborhood.

why do you refer to the black “ghetto” vs the white “neighborhood”?

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#167

Post by meh99 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #152
meh99 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really see the inequality of representation and taxation in capitalism as any less authoritarian. If everything I do is being validated for value by management and bosses, and my buying power is managed by bankers who have inflationary powers to dilute my earnings, we’ve just made managed economy ephemeral. We’ve socially normalized grift and protection rackets. Some estimates suggest up to 30% of inmates are…

If you don’t see a difference, but millions of others do, it might be worth steel manning the opposite of your conclusions. It’s a useful rhetorical exercise at least.

Millions see sky wizards, should I?

I get the difference. It doesn’t absolve our culture of ignoring it’s deficiencies. But look what happens at a university in 2008 when students simply sit on the ground.

Is there a difference? Or have we just accepted our fate?

I don’t think I’m the one that needs to take tour advice.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#168

Post by mensetmanusman »

meh99 wrote: post #167
mensetmanusman wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t see a difference, but millions of others do, it might be worth steel manning the opposite of your conclusions. It’s a useful rhetorical exercise at least.

Millions see sky wizards, should I? I get the difference. It doesn’t absolve our culture of ignoring it’s deficiencies. But look what happens at a university in 2008 when students simply sit on the ground. Is there a difference? Or have we just accepted our fate? I don’t think I’m the one that needs to take tour advice.

There might be a difference between belief in sky wizards and belief in taxation in capitalism being as authoritarian…

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#169

Post by dang »

rorykoehler wrote: post #59
dang wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads into generic ideological or nationalistic flamewar. No, we don't care about Xi [1]. We just care about not having tedious and nasty HN threads, which is what comments like this point to. Plesae don't do that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [1] and if you worry that we may secretly be communist agents please see this mini-FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=266…

Eventually sticking your head in the sand is condoning behaviour. I understand your perspective however given YC's conflict of interest due to investing in Chinese companies I think it would be prudent to stick YC's flag in the ground. Inaction and fence-sitting is radically political too.

That's quite a stretch for justifying garden-variety flamebait.

As it turns out, you're wrong on the facts as well. YC got out of China years ago. But none of that ever had anything whatsoever to do with how we moderate HN. It's much more straightforward: we don't want predictable, tedious, nasty flamewars on HN, we want the opposite.

That's literally all there is to this, even though I routinely get accused of being a secret agent, stealth activist, or some other sinister entity just for doing this silly job. The only non-obvious mechanism at work here, indeed the sole aspect that isn't brain-dead in its obviousness, is continually trying to figure out new ways to explain this to the community.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#170

Post by dang »

TX0098812 wrote: post #21
dang wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads into generic ideological or nationalistic flamewar. No, we don't care about Xi [1]. We just care about not having tedious and nasty HN threads, which is what comments like this point to. Plesae don't do that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [1] and if you worry that we may secretly be communist agents please see this mini-FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=266…

The poster did not mention ideology or nationalism. Please don't pretend to misinterpret.

Of course the comment was dripping with it. What else is an internet one-liner like that about? Let's not ignore the obvious.
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