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Apple's “iCloud Private Relay” broke risk based authentication

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11–20 of 211 posts

Re: Apple's “iCloud Private Relay” broke risk based authentication

#11
post #2

"But please stop relying on RIBA for the plain authentication of a user!" Well I'm not sure everyone will be happy to do that. Tying session tokens to source IP addresses is usually not a bad practice and is rarely the only mitigation used.

Token binding was a much better way to do this where you'd bind a cookie to a certain client TLS key. Unfortunately only MS implemented support, and that disappeared when they moved to chromium so I'm guessing it's dead.

Re: Apple's “iCloud Private Relay” broke risk based authentication

#12
post #8
post #4

> As of writing this blog I was in Switzerland and the IP used to egress my traffic was in a region located in the US. If this also tends to change a lot and fast you can basically throw away IP addresses as data of your RIBA. Wait, so my data will be routed to US servers, as an EU resident, where the data protection laws are not as strong as where I live? This is a really bad idea, as US is known to tap any data the…

Well Switzerland is not completely EU so I’m not sure if it has the same data protection laws.

We still have separate laws here. But we are moving towards the EU regulations in small steps.

Re: Apple's “iCloud Private Relay” broke risk based authentication

#13
post #4

> As of writing this blog I was in Switzerland and the IP used to egress my traffic was in a region located in the US. If this also tends to change a lot and fast you can basically throw away IP addresses as data of your RIBA. Wait, so my data will be routed to US servers, as an EU resident, where the data protection laws are not as strong as where I live? This is a really bad idea, as US is known to tap any data the…

I don't believe that's the case. Just listened to Craig Federighi on Jon Gruber's podcast say that the intent is that the relay is regionalized. Your IP will be anonymized, but it will at least correspond to the general location you are in. Possibly this was just a bug in the beta?

Re: Apple's “iCloud Private Relay” broke risk based authentication

#14
post #2

"But please stop relying on RIBA for the plain authentication of a user!" Well I'm not sure everyone will be happy to do that. Tying session tokens to source IP addresses is usually not a bad practice and is rarely the only mitigation used.

Token binding was a much better way to do this where you'd bind a cookie to a certain client TLS key. Unfortunately only MS implemented support, and that disappeared when they moved to chromium so I'm guessing it's dead.

I think it is still there, even in Edge on Chromium. But still Chrome dropped the hidden support a while ago.

Re: Apple's “iCloud Private Relay” broke risk based authentication

#15
post #4

> As of writing this blog I was in Switzerland and the IP used to egress my traffic was in a region located in the US. If this also tends to change a lot and fast you can basically throw away IP addresses as data of your RIBA. Wait, so my data will be routed to US servers, as an EU resident, where the data protection laws are not as strong as where I live? This is a really bad idea, as US is known to tap any data the…

I'm more bemused as why it picked a US server in the first place, as the options panel screenshot suggests it should be presevering the rough location (i.e. pick Belgium or France or somewhere european).

Is private relay still in Beta? That might explain it if the serve side component only got deployed in one or two of Apple's US datacentres.

Re: Apple's “iCloud Private Relay” broke risk based authentication

#16
post #4

> As of writing this blog I was in Switzerland and the IP used to egress my traffic was in a region located in the US. If this also tends to change a lot and fast you can basically throw away IP addresses as data of your RIBA. Wait, so my data will be routed to US servers, as an EU resident, where the data protection laws are not as strong as where I live? This is a really bad idea, as US is known to tap any data the…

Private relay will egress from the same general region as the client source location. So if you’re in switzerland and hopping through a US exit point that is a bug. This is clearly explained in the wwdc video

You can choose in the OS to use a general location or stick to something in your proximity.

At least in the Developer Beta 2

Re: Apple's “iCloud Private Relay” broke risk based authentication

#17
post #7
post #6

> IMO = In My Opinion is a blog format where a author reflects his own opinion Did they just reïnvent opinion pieces?

Given how many acronyms get slung around on the broader web with 0 context, are you really going to nitpick on one that's labelled in a byline? It just explains the prefix of the blog.

Exactly this is the intention!

Re: Apple's “iCloud Private Relay” broke risk based authentication

#19
post #5

I find authentication the least problematic place where risk based on ip is used. Etsy, for example, will suspend your seller account if it sees too many logins from different IPs or if it's from an IP it has flagged before. It also has terrible seller customer service so it could take weeks to get it un-suspended. Heard of some people using Private Relay getting hit by this during the beta so hopefully Etsy gets rid…

True it applies to other services as well.

I just scoped my IMO to our Identity and Access Management World.

Re: Apple's “iCloud Private Relay” broke risk based authentication

#20

When Google Workplace locks users because of this, and I’m fairly sure they will because they’re super aggressive with IPs that change via VPN, they'll bounce incoming mail for that user. Have fun everyone!

Been there done that. Google flagged my account several times already, with nice captchas :-)
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