It's like fantasy football, but for securities trading.
Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
271–280 of 361 posts
Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could technically buy real shares and sell synthetic shares on the blockchain, harvesting the price difference. This would generally have the same effect as the blockchain user buying the stock directly, but through an intermediary collecting premium.
Why stop there, you could buy real shares, sell synthetic ones, and then sell the real shares, too. Or just sell synthetic shares without having any real shares in the first place. This seems like a case where a blockhain doesn't really do much good.
These would also trade like other crypto - 24/7, 365.
Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
This obviously doesn't hold up if we look at the original purpose of the blockchain, ie Bitcoin, to avoid issuers of money to debase said money. Which has in fact happened thousands of times through out history and keeps happening to this very minute.
All the evidence shows that a rate of inflation around 2% averaged over the business cycle is beneficial and necessary for the economy. Trying to adopt a deflationary currency is akin to refusing to drink water because people drown in lakes.
> All the evidence shows...
There is no such evidence. There are those who benefit from inflation (and only if it's predictable for them) but the majority of people don't. Unless you define economy as something only the wealthy can benefit from - no, inflation is not good.
Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
#274> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. I find it really weird how crypto folks keep pretending that financial regulation is an obviously bad thing, as opposed to restrictions put in place in response to real problems
You're seeing this from a western, first world perspective.
If you're in a third world country, you likely don't have access to robust, transparent local stock markets. Whatever exchanges might exist tend to be rife with scammy companies, insider trading and poor regulation. If you want to invest in, say, the US stock market, you'd have to jump through a ton of hoops or have a ton of money, essentially locking out all but the wealthiest.
These crypto "stocks" essentially allow anyone living anywhere to "invest" in top-tier stocks like AAPL.
I don't see any reason why you'd buy these crypto stocks if you're living in the US. But if you're living in Somalia or Madagascar? Hell yes.
Again, all the crypto criticism is very myopic and first world. HN needs to step out of that POV to understand the value. Decentralized, global markets don't benefit first world citizens, but they definitely level the playing field for us third worlders.
Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
#275The basic idea is that bets are collateralized at a level of 150% of the starting price. If you buy a synthetic stock when it's at 100, and it goes above 150, your bet is cashed out at that point. As usual, the big question is, what's the collateral? In this case it's their very own private stablecoin, Terra, which pays an annual percentage rate of 17%. That, in turn, is being paid by people who are borrowing that st…
This page[0] about Terra Luna makes for laughable reading. > Terra combines the price stability and wide adoption of fiat currencies with the censorship-resistance of Bitcoin (BTC) Yeah, the price looks really stable. https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/terra-luna/
This is not their stablecoin.
Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
But most things of this type specifically arent settled, they're settled in cash and rolled over, again and again and again, forever. Look at the volumes traded for these derivatives, numbers are insanely high. People don't mostly use them to do what they were intended (hedge a poor rain year or similar), but to GAMBLE. The rest is mostly just narrative.
Saying that they were intended for hedging sounds like a very strong proposition to me. Chicago-style futures have (and have had, for as long as we know) numerous features that indicate speculation (or gambling, as it's also known) as one of their big reasons for existence. They are also used to sell unconventional services (being long corn in August and short corn in July is effectively selling the service of transp…
>Saying that they were intended for hedging sounds like a very strong proposition to me
I think most people believe this since every textbook I've seen explains them and implies that this is what they are for.
Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
#277> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. I find it really weird how crypto folks keep pretending that financial regulation is an obviously bad thing, as opposed to restrictions put in place in response to real problems
From personal Perspective: ALL scam I had as a seller was with credit cards. I always ate the costs by refunding with extra fees. Over Easter I could not transfer money for 5 days!! Because holidays. Also no transfers on weekends. European and American banks refuse to open a private account for me because money laundering laws. Even thought I have an EU passport but just living in Switzerland locks me out of this. And at last the fees. A few years back I paid well over 1000 dollars in banking fees within a year, mostly because I was getting transfers in Euro or dollars and withdraw in Eur on CHF account. Or how microtransactions are essentially non existent on the internet because of fees.
Say what you want, for me personally traditional banking is more of a burden than anything.
Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Trusting facebook as the central clearing house for all of our personal data doesn’t seem to have worked out very well.
Let's call it regulated clearing houses then.
Regulated by who tho? There is a natural misstrust for everything involving the U.S. As service provider around here because of the weak privacy laws compared to us (Switzerland) or our neighbors . And yet we heavily depend(ed) on the American led credit card system.
Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your reference says they are illegal only on regulated markets in the US.
> they are illegal only on regulated markets How on earth would your take-away from that be that be "oh, in that case it's perfectly legal on all the _unregulated_ markets" ? That not how regulation works, at all.
Because literally the far majority of the world is what you call 'unregulated' just because US people are excluded does not at all make this illegal for anyone else.
Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
#280> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. I find it really weird how crypto folks keep pretending that financial regulation is an obviously bad thing, as opposed to restrictions put in place in response to real problems
It's because like other libertarian/anarcho-capitalist politics, which seem to be heavily tied in with cryptocurrency, it's based on some idea that every individual is super smart and rational and shouldn't be hindered by the regulations, combined with a fairly righteous mistrust of government and big institutions.
It's a kind of arrogance that they personally don't feel like there's a colossal power asymmetry they need protection from and cryptocurrency proves this.
Perhaps some are clued enough to not get steamrollered by institutions and fraudsters, however they appear to have utter contempt and disregard for people who lack the time or ability or learning speed to protect themselves.