Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

singularityhub.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 178 posts

Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

#151

Post by throwaway762762 »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #74
iseethroughbs wrote: post #2

The article speaks about using this as a way to escape addiction to painkillers. Not so fast. Addiction is a phenomenon that predominantly happens in the brain, due to it constantly adapting to find homeostasis. And being unable to perceive pain when you should be is not homeostasis.

Opioid addiction is not like other addiction mechanisms. After prolonged use the gastrointestinal system is ravaged and when people want to stop they find themselves plagued not only with withdrawals symptoms but also by incredible abdominal pain, so they take more opioids, which worsens the pain, which requires more opioids to alleviate , which worsens the gastrointestinal damage and subsequent pain, and so on... It…

Just wanted to say THANK YOU for pointing this syndrome out to me. I'm almost sure I have this after years of being prescribed Tramadol for chronic abdominal pain that only ever gets worse. At first it was a life changer. Am now on the max prescribed dose, and the progression of pain seems to only accelerate each time I've upped the dose.

Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

#152

Post by [deleted] »

zdragnar wrote: post #114
nszceta wrote: post #62

The Hedonistic Imperative outlines how genetic engineering and nanotechnology will abolish suffering in all sentient life. The abolitionist project is hugely ambitious but technically feasible. It is also instrumentally rational and morally urgent. The metabolic pathways of pain and malaise evolved because they served the fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment. They will be replaced by a different sort of…

My dad cannot feel pain in his feet- it is terrible, as he often doesn't know they are even injured until he leaves bloody footprints around the house, or infection sets in deeply. "Abolition" of all physical pain is an asinine desire that will only lead to our detriment.

[deleted]

Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

#153

Post by zdragnar »

thewakalix wrote: post #117
kazinator wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but suppose your brain could be notified that something is wrong with your foot, without it hurting?

Relevant discussion: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6qS9q5zHafFXsB6hf/serious-st...

> running across the hot desert sand in order to reach water would actually feel good

And so people would seek it out. We already seek out every other form of pleasure- both positive (intimacy) and maladaptive (drugs).

If anything, this sounds like attempting to over-fit for fitness.

Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

#154

Post by waste_monk »

zdragnar wrote: post #114
nszceta wrote: post #62

The Hedonistic Imperative outlines how genetic engineering and nanotechnology will abolish suffering in all sentient life. The abolitionist project is hugely ambitious but technically feasible. It is also instrumentally rational and morally urgent. The metabolic pathways of pain and malaise evolved because they served the fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment. They will be replaced by a different sort of…

My dad cannot feel pain in his feet- it is terrible, as he often doesn't know they are even injured until he leaves bloody footprints around the house, or infection sets in deeply. "Abolition" of all physical pain is an asinine desire that will only lead to our detriment.

Something similar happened to an old friend of mine - he didn't know he had diabetes, and due to the resulting nerve damage in his feet had no idea anything was wrong until after gangrene had set in. I haven't seen him in a while but I understand he came out of it pretty well, in that he "only" lost a few toes and managed to keep most of his foot.

I hope your dad is managing ok and avoids this sort of mishap.

Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

#155

Post by imtringued »

kazinator wrote: post #115
zdragnar wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad cannot feel pain in his feet- it is terrible, as he often doesn't know they are even injured until he leaves bloody footprints around the house, or infection sets in deeply. "Abolition" of all physical pain is an asinine desire that will only lead to our detriment.

OK, but suppose your brain could be notified that something is wrong with your foot, without it hurting?

That means you want less pain, not no pain at all.

Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

#156

Post by imtringued »

throwamon wrote: post #96
nszceta wrote: post #62

The Hedonistic Imperative outlines how genetic engineering and nanotechnology will abolish suffering in all sentient life. The abolitionist project is hugely ambitious but technically feasible. It is also instrumentally rational and morally urgent. The metabolic pathways of pain and malaise evolved because they served the fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment. They will be replaced by a different sort of…

> in all sentient life I don't think we have to worry too much about ALL of sentient life, since all that's gonna be left of it soon is humans and pets and cattle. > most of us in the technically advanced nations take its routine absence for granted The absence of pain is not the absence of issues. Unless you can "solve" all (physical, psychological, societal) issues (and what would "solving" most of them even mean?)…

>and what would "solving" most of them even mean?

One step further. If the universe has a purpose and we somehow solve the universe (maximize entropy or whatever), wouldn't humans cease to exist?

The truth is that we are beings of constant motion. We can't sit still.

Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

#157

Post by pixel_tracing »

nszceta wrote: post #62

The Hedonistic Imperative outlines how genetic engineering and nanotechnology will abolish suffering in all sentient life. The abolitionist project is hugely ambitious but technically feasible. It is also instrumentally rational and morally urgent. The metabolic pathways of pain and malaise evolved because they served the fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment. They will be replaced by a different sort of…

Suffering leads to catharsis, all pain shouldn’t be eliminated

Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

#158

Post by thewakalix »

zdragnar wrote: post #153
thewakalix wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant discussion: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6qS9q5zHafFXsB6hf/serious-st...

> running across the hot desert sand in order to reach water would actually feel good And so people would seek it out. We already seek out every other form of pleasure- both positive (intimacy) and maladaptive (drugs). If anything, this sounds like attempting to over-fit for fitness.

They would deliberately set themselves up to need to run across hot sand to reach water? Why?

(I understand why a standard human might do that, but how would stranding oneself in a desert be adaptive? And if it isn’t adaptive, why would a hypothetical “harmonized human” do it?)

Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

#159

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

throwaway762762 wrote: post #151
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opioid addiction is not like other addiction mechanisms. After prolonged use the gastrointestinal system is ravaged and when people want to stop they find themselves plagued not only with withdrawals symptoms but also by incredible abdominal pain, so they take more opioids, which worsens the pain, which requires more opioids to alleviate , which worsens the gastrointestinal damage and subsequent pain, and so on... It…

Just wanted to say THANK YOU for pointing this syndrome out to me. I'm almost sure I have this after years of being prescribed Tramadol for chronic abdominal pain that only ever gets worse. At first it was a life changer. Am now on the max prescribed dose, and the progression of pain seems to only accelerate each time I've upped the dose.

Tramadol is absolute garbage, I feel for you. I was recommended Zofran to help with the nausea and upset by people who went through the same thing but haven't tried it myself. If you manage to stop, be strong and persevere, it took me months after fully stopping for the pain to go away and to be able to eat normal foods again. My doctor had me do a few purges and I only ate small portions of rice for those months, anything else would make me sick. I was also recommended replacement shakes but haven't tried them. Best of luck.

Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time

#160

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

spfzero wrote: post #118
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opioid addiction is not like other addiction mechanisms. After prolonged use the gastrointestinal system is ravaged and when people want to stop they find themselves plagued not only with withdrawals symptoms but also by incredible abdominal pain, so they take more opioids, which worsens the pain, which requires more opioids to alleviate , which worsens the gastrointestinal damage and subsequent pain, and so on... It…

But before enough prolonged use to cause that, aren't you already addicted, for practical purposes?

I imagine it varies depending on the drug, the patient and the dosage. I was recently on heavy doses of morphine for 10 days and was left unable to eat normally for 4 months afterward, so it can happen quite quick.

But the point is, whether you're addicted or not, you cannot stop taking the drug. If you stop alcohol or smoking you might experience light to severe withdrawal symptoms depending on your level of use, even hospitalization. With opioids you will experiences months of crippling pain and inability to eat normally with the only remedy being more opioids. And you might not even know it's the opioids doing it because the doctors give that garbage out like candy and don't warn you about these side effects.

Post reply on HN