Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night • Hacker News Board

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#221

Post by yoz-y » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:09 AM UTC

blfr wrote: post #215

saithound wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then, this is a gov't that does not trust its citizens to raise their own children, or even historically to decide how many kids to have. The Chinese government is worse than most others, but not for this reason. All governments and societies make all kinds of "tyrannical" rules about raising children, in the name of limiting harm to children. This is no different. In Germany, the government does not trust pare…

In the US, legal adults between the ages of 18 and 21 can decide to join the Army, travel to exotic lands and die there. The same adults are not trusted to make the decision of buying and drinking beer. They're trusted to join the Army which includes fairly strict supervision from the chain of command. This is more akin to drinking with your parents than going off by yourself.

Drinking an unsupervised beer still seems less dangerous than taking a supervised bullet.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#222

Post by isatty » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:13 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #39

perihelions wrote: post #31

This is I believe the first time in human history that AI video cameras have been widely deployed, inside private homes, for the purpose of enforcing laws. Never mind the banal details: this is an incredible milestone.

...a milestone towards the totalitarian dystopia previously only encountered in science fiction.

This shit is so utterly unacceptable and yet there will be no significant mass behind protests against it.

Why won’t you think of the children?

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#223

Post by ElFitz » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

wildmanx wrote: post #203

ElFitz wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The age requirement is the government not trusting their citizens not to damage themselves. The incoherence is still there. Not trusted not to damage themselves with alcool, but trusted to be given weapons and sent to the far side of the world where quite a few people would love to get their heads or, barring that, at least kill them? From the little research I’ve done, soldiers have greater chances of dying violen…

No, it's not hypocrisy but a tradeoff. What does society lose if enlisting before 21 is banned? Most of its recruits. The military would be in ruins, the strength of the country on the battlefield in jeopardy. What does society lose if drinking before 21 is banned? Some revenue for brewing companies and associated tax income, which are easily compensated by having saved significant amounts of brain cells in young adu…

I certainly know most things are arbitrations between needs and preferences.

However, pretending that preserving these precious young people even against themselves is of the utmost importance while still making such tradeoffs is hypocrisy.

There’s no shame in making such a choice, and wether or not it is a wrong one is a whole other matter.

The hypocrisy lies in pretending it isn’t what it is.

Also, other countries have an average age of 28 for their soldiers. And given that apparently the brain’s functions, and particularly the prefrontal cortex, aren’t all finished until 25[1], it seems like a sensible thing to wait a few years before relying on their judgement on how to apply the use of lethal force in more than stressful environments.

But then again, if one were to be cynical, one could say it makes them all the more easier to recruit.

[1]: https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?Con...

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#224

Post by re-al » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:17 AM UTC

This tech is only used is China, right?

Our government don't access 'our' tech without permission. But hang on, is this or is this not 'meta-data'?

Anyway, with coronavirus, its a must-have. We need our governments to track our moves in order to monitor vectors of attack.

We need this tech - why can't we roll it out here?!

/s

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#225

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:17 AM UTC

blfr wrote: post #215

saithound wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then, this is a gov't that does not trust its citizens to raise their own children, or even historically to decide how many kids to have. The Chinese government is worse than most others, but not for this reason. All governments and societies make all kinds of "tyrannical" rules about raising children, in the name of limiting harm to children. This is no different. In Germany, the government does not trust pare…

In the US, legal adults between the ages of 18 and 21 can decide to join the Army, travel to exotic lands and die there. The same adults are not trusted to make the decision of buying and drinking beer. They're trusted to join the Army which includes fairly strict supervision from the chain of command. This is more akin to drinking with your parents than going off by yourself.

Not really.

"We are going to trust you to go into war - a stressful situation - and know who to kill and who not to kill, if need be... but no, we definitely won't let you sit at home and drink a beer, even if it is with your parents. That is criminal"

It is pretending to treat someone like a mature adult, with all of the responsibilities, but refusing to allow beer and bars, which are common recreational and social habits in the culture.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#226

Post by Tade0 » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:19 AM UTC

Is this an attempt at self-regulation? Perhaps Tencent fears that if they don't introduce limits, the government will hold them responsible for raising a generation addicted to gaming?

Looks like a typical simple solution to a complex problem or, in other words, not a solution.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#227

Post by arkey » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

rb666 wrote: post #179

saithound wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to name at least one government or society which has no such rules. All societies have them, and many such rules are widely accepted by the societies that have them as beneficial. E.g. such laws are the reason parents are not allowed to expose their children to obscene images, even if the parents really are convinced that doing so would benefit their children.

The Dutch government? Also, how is "not allowing homeschooling" tyrannical? Corona especially has shown us that the quality of education received at a school is much higher than at home. Every child deserves to not be held back by their parents in this way.

There are many, many cases in which home-school can lead to a better education quality than a public school.

It's not the same to have the parents purposefully owning and caring and dedicating to the education of the children and on the other side, an unexpected circumstance that causes your children to suddenly stay at home and try to follow an education program in which no one is prepared for such scenario.

Homeschool as a way of life is not comparable to what happened during/because of the pandemic.

"Not allowing homeschooling" in an absolute way is completely tyrannical.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#228

Post by rotebeete » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #151

hulitu wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot activate a sim card in Germany without proof of ID

That's hardly comparable though. No one is taking your voice print and biometric details to match everything you ever say or do against you just to activate a sim card. Not to mention that buying a travel sim card that doesn't require ID is absolutely trivial, or even getting one shipped from any other European country which doesn't have this requirement is simple and easy. Yeah it's a faff, but at least no one will…

> No one is taking your voice print

SIM cards are used for transmitting voice in an insecure fashion, so you can't be sure. Some voice codecs are even designed to do something very similiar to fingerprinting voices.

> No one is taking your [...] biometric details

They were already taken when you had¹ to get the ID in the first place.

¹ The federal republic directly adopted laws from nazi germany requiring ID for every citizen. This law was initially introduced to acquire data about jews and people fit for military service.

> to match everything you ever say or do against you just to activate a sim card

This was never about surveillance by private entities! Federal agencys can match everything you say based on the fact that the SIM card in your portable bug is linked directly to you.

> but at least no one will accuse you of being an enemy of the state if you do this like trying to avoid tagging in China.

You can be certain that you end up in a database if you use a foreign SIM card from a non-KYC-country for a long period of time in a residential area. Your only defence is your network provider not cooperating unless forced by law.

Germany is being turned into a surveillance state bit by bit and I am fed up by people trying to defend it!

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#229

Post by bserge » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:28 AM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #43

rococode wrote: post #23

For context, these are China's current restrictions on gaming for minors (under age 18): - Maximum 1.5 hours of gaming on weekdays - Maximum 3 hours of gaming on weekends - No games between 10pm and 8am (note that school typically starts between 7 and 8am) South Korea has similar types of restrictions, by the way. No gaming for minors (under 16) between midnight and 6am. I think Vietnam may have something similar as…

I had no idea such laws existed. That's pretty crazy. But then, this is a gov't that does not trust its citizens to raise their own children, or even historically to decide how many kids to have. When I was a kid in America, my parents disallowed videogames in the house. No NES or Genesis for us. On the occasions I'd go over to other kids' houses and play, I had no idea what I was doing. On the one hand, this seemed…

> But I'm interested what kind of unanticipated side effects it might have as far as kids learning to roll-their-own entertainment.

You mean like they've been doing for millennia? Probably no unanticipated side effects.

Re: Tencent deploys facial recognition to detect minors gaming at night

#230

Post by kgwgk » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:31 AM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #150

jamil7 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most (all maybe?) of the new German banks and fintech products seem to offer it as they have no physical branches, you can often open accounts directly from your smartphone. Some will offer a way of identifying yourself via a post office with your passport too.

What the person above means is different. If you open an account, nowadays you have to ask someone that already has a Wechat account to scan a QR code to vouch that you are indeed who you claim to be. It doesn't actually do ID identification though and it doesn't have to be a Chinese mainland user. It can be any other active Wechat account. Full ID Identification only works with a China mainland bank account IIRC. Wh…

> What the person above means is different

What person? The first paragraph in ev1’s comment (and the ‘liveness’ reference in the reply) are not about ‘vouching’.