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What really happened to Jack Ma?

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21–30 of 210 posts

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#21
post #17

I hope Xi has a lovely trip to The Hague one of these days.

Please don't take HN threads into generic ideological or nationalistic flamewar. No, we don't care about Xi [1]. We just care about not having tedious and nasty HN threads, which is what comments like this point to. Plesae don't do that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [1] and if you worry that we may secretly be communist agents please see this mini-FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=266…

The poster did not mention ideology or nationalism. Please don't pretend to misinterpret.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#22
post #19

I hope Xi has a lovely trip to The Hague one of these days.

I'm torn about this comment. On the one hand it's inflammatory, like dang pointed out; on the other, we're frustrated about the perceived injustice and our seeming powerlessness at the face of it, and this comment vents that in a relatively calm way. I guess dang is right. I'd prefer not to have venting on HN, even if I sometimes sympathize.

Your comment is inflammatory. Don't post this sort of thing.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#23
The very excellent effect of Ma's downfall is that it will remind wealthy people in the West that democracy has its good points.

Much easier to sympathize with the expropriation of a Billionaire than some schlub from the middle of nowhere.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Xi announced more hands-on CCP oversight for all companies in 2020 after a few decades of Wild West-style capitalism. I don't understand why this considered by some communists as "impure". The communist manifesto does talk about capitalism first and then use the generated wealth for communism.

What does communism have to do with the Chinese Communist Party?

Edit: Removed this. I was agreeing with parent (CCP != communist), but don’t wanna encourage more replies like the one I got

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#25
post #18

I think this, in combination with the author's previous article about the moves the CCP have made on Ma's business make it pretty clear what is happening. Ma is being held whilst his businesses are dismantled. Ant is being turned into a traditional bank, Alibaba is being attacked from several directions, Ma's university (a clear source of soft power) is being shut down. When you then ask where Ma is I would say it's…

What happens if Xi kicks the can tomorrow? How smooth is the transition going to be? China is so massive I cant understand how they dont have multiple power centers bumping into each other all the time.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#27
Colour me paranoid.. but I think I'm a realist.

From China's point of view, the creation (and concentration) of (large amounts) of wealth in the hands of individuals, leads to the concentration of power. That power in turn, becomes a threat to the current approach of the CCP, and the messages being shared with society.

In 2019, China began working with PWC in an effort to repatriate, or at least dual-list IPOs, in either Shanghai (Star) or Hong Kong. DIDI publicly want against that goal - by single-listing on the Nasdaq.

By accruing a massive amount of wealth, and freedoms, Ma began to become a thorn in the side of the CCP. It's one thing to have (direct) access to finances, it's another to disparage the state-run financial system. But it's still another to control purchase platforms, chat platforms, and the next-generation of educated, technology executives. This is where he was.

Ma has been silenced, the threat has been eliminated. The CCP has proven, once again that they are adept at addressing both the internal and external threat to their perceived stability.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#28
post #23

The very excellent effect of Ma's downfall is that it will remind wealthy people in the West that democracy has its good points. Much easier to sympathize with the expropriation of a Billionaire than some schlub from the middle of nowhere.

> The very excellent effect of Ma's downfall is that it will remind wealthy people in the West that democracy has its good points.

Yes, like protecting rich criminals.

> Much easier to sympathize with the expropriation of a Billionaire than some schlub from the middle of nowhere.

Some people never have enough. It is good that sometimes they are shown that limits exist.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#29
> There are one billion smartphones in China today. Everyone knows what Jack Ma looks like. Given his notoriety, and the intense vested interest of the financial world in his status and well-being, if he is at liberty today, how could it be that there are no pictures of him in circulation?

This point would be better if it could be demonstrated by showing that there were a lot of ordinary people taking pictures of Ma in public all the way through October 2020 and then that suddenly stopped.

So I decided to check for myself and searched for 马云 偶遇 on DDG. First result was this article about a woman's selfie with him going viral, published on June 2, 2021: https://new.qq.com/omn/20210602/20210602A02NNM00.html

If he'd known about this, there are many ways the author could've attacked its credibility (e.g. maybe it's a deepfake or an old picture) but given that he doesn't mention it, I conclude that he didn't do enough research and his list of sightings is incomplete.

EDIT: Yep, it's an old picture, also appears in this Zhihu post from two years ago: https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/57836061

EDIT 2: Also a few semi-recent results on Weibo: https://m.weibo.cn/search?containerid=100103type%3D1%26q%3D%... I'm too lazy to check how many of them are reposts of old pictures.

Re: What really happened to Jack Ma?

#30
post #12

Another (more) interesting question would be: What is Jack Ma actually doing with all the money from private loans against his shares? Buying European real estate? We probably will know eventually if $BABA keeps its downward trend and margin calls cannot be fulfilled.

AFAIK it’s usual practice for billionaire founders to fund their lifestyles with loans taken against their stock. If they sold stock, they’d incur large taxes. A loan avoids that.
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