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Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

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Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#121

Post by im3w1l »

gruez wrote: post #63
im3w1l wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my ideal world this clause would be struck down as illegal, but not only that, the company would be fined for even trying to put that in the contract. Furthermore, the lawyers involved would receive formal warnings that they will be disbarred if they keep it up.

>In my ideal world this clause would be struck down as illegal unlikely. A big part of the problem is that the government has deputized financial institutions with enforcing anti-money laundering and anti-terrorist financing laws, and those institution face stiff penalties in the event such transactions slip through.

There is a big difference between "we will freeze your assets when we have a reasonable belief that we are legally required to" and (to paraphrase) "we will do whatever the fuck we want for any or no reason, we may not even give notice".

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#122

Post by frankbreetz »

wyager wrote: post #31
techsupporter wrote: post #14

> The sudden account closures have put financially vulnerable customers under stress. Of course they have. It's no accident that accounts like these are heavily marketed to people with terms like "faster access to YOUR money" and "virtually no fees" and "manage YOUR MONEY from anywhere, down to the penny!" These companies are targeting people for whom every single dollar is of vital importance. To then yank the accou…

With regard to “automated customer handling” (I.e. intentionally wasting customers’ time and energy in the hope they give up) - I can’t help but feel that society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior. If some airline or bank puts you on hold for 4 hours, there’s no way to throw a few punches or whatever at the pe…

Anecdotally, I recently got stuck in one of these automated loops for an airline and they said there was going to be a wait time of like 10 hours. After fiddling around I eventually found the call back option and they called me at 2 AM, so I missed the call.

So, I drove to the nearest airport and went to the service desk. I got my problem fixed in about 5 minutes. I do agree something needs to be done about these customer service loops, if I didn't get my problem resolved I wouldn't have been able to go on my family trip, that we had been talking about with the kids for months. It is beyond ridiculous, in a fair and sensible some government agency would be able to prevent these things, but here we are.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#123

Post by rpmisms »

quesera wrote: post #83
wyager wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regard to “automated customer handling” (I.e. intentionally wasting customers’ time and energy in the hope they give up) - I can’t help but feel that society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior. If some airline or bank puts you on hold for 4 hours, there’s no way to throw a few punches or whatever at the pe…

> society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior Wow, that's the most poorly-thought out idea I've read in recent memory. A few more seconds of consideration should be enough to come up with all the reasons this is such a terrible idea. But one that I can contribute from a slightly unusual perspective (working adja…

I don't think you're responding to an advocate for violence. I think the mere possibility of violence that comes with face-to-face interactions modifies people's behavior.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#124

Post by dimmke »

techsupporter wrote: post #14

> The sudden account closures have put financially vulnerable customers under stress. Of course they have. It's no accident that accounts like these are heavily marketed to people with terms like "faster access to YOUR money" and "virtually no fees" and "manage YOUR MONEY from anywhere, down to the penny!" These companies are targeting people for whom every single dollar is of vital importance. To then yank the accou…

I used to like these kind of bank startups because they usually have a much more polished user interface/well designed app, but they definitely do stuff like this.

Simple was the first big one. Then they got acquired. Then shut down. I switched to a bank called N26 that after 2 months flagged my account for "suspicious activity" and asked me to reupload identification documents. They rejected every single attempt I tried then shut down my account. I then do some reading and turns out they do this to a ton of people.

Having a fancy looking debit card and a nice app isn't worth the drama. I'd love to see one of these fintech startups actually last and not get acquired or turn into a way to market to consumers but it's looking pretty grim.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#125

Post by jklm »

silisili wrote: post #9

I don't see how anyone can take Chime seriously. I have a habit of checking out most new free banking apps, looking for the best deals, UI, security, etc. Chime immediately started sending my phone notifications with tons of emojis in them. It felt completely childish and I couldn't believe this was a legitimate company that people would put tons of money into.

One working theory is that emojis increase conversion, retention, etc. [1]

That being said, the reality likely depends on your product and audience.

[1] https://www.leanplum.com/blog/powering-engagement-with-emoji...

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#126

Post by silisili »

jklm wrote: post #125
silisili wrote: post #9

I don't see how anyone can take Chime seriously. I have a habit of checking out most new free banking apps, looking for the best deals, UI, security, etc. Chime immediately started sending my phone notifications with tons of emojis in them. It felt completely childish and I couldn't believe this was a legitimate company that people would put tons of money into.

One working theory is that emojis increase conversion, retention, etc. [1] That being said, the reality likely depends on your product and audience. [1] https://www.leanplum.com/blog/powering-engagement-with-emoji...

My immediate first thought is...are emoji loving folks worth keeping?

Not meant as an insult. But if your retention rate is up 50% with 18 year olds, and down 25% with 30+ers, is that good?

My hangup is that it's a bank. As another so eloquently described, I prefer an ultra professional appearance. Money is important, and banking is ultra regulated. I want to feel they are on top of everything.

Pizza places all started using emojis in communications to me. And that's ok, it's just pizza.

But I don't want my doctor sending me an email with a crab and a skull.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#128

Post by kevin_b_er »

Animats wrote: post #37

Their terms are awful.[1] They can do whatever they want. Compare the terms from Bank of America, especially the "Withdrawal" section.[2] There are restrictions on how soon you can withdraw how much, and they tell you those up front. You can get at least $225 the day after a deposit. For new customers within 30 days of opening the account, withdrawals over $5,525 may be required to wait up to 5 days. For large cash w…

This is because Bank of America is a bank and Chime is not. Regulation CC requires much of what you just listed. First $200 available fast, and within a few days, the first $5000.

> But remember, the Expedited Funds Availability Act requires the first $200 of a deposit that is not already subject to next-day availability to be made available by the first business day following the day of deposit.

> Deposits into accounts of new customers (open for less than 30 days)--Next-day availability applies only to cash, electronic payments, and the first $5,000 of any other next-day items; the remaining amount from next-day items must be available by the ninth business day. You may choose any availability schedule for deposits of other checks into the accounts of these new customers.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/regcc/regcc.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedited_Funds_Availability_A...

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#129

Post by mindslight »

gruez wrote: post #104
mindslight wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The feature that has been lost was actually a property of writing checks. When you use a debit card, or use a website to make an online payment, you're ultimately asking permission and the bank is free to say "no" with little repercussion. Whereas if you write a check on your account, pass it to someone else, who passes it to their bank, who presents it to your bank, your bank wantonly dishonoring the check would res…

>Whereas if you write a check on your account, pass it to someone else, who passes it to their bank, who presents it to your bank, your bank wantonly dishonoring the check would result in a much larger fallout. I doubt that the law would be on your side if the bank called and told you that your account was closed, and you continued writing checks. At best that would prevent situations mentioned in the article where y…

Yes, obviously if you have received notice your account is closed, and you continue writing checks, you're on the hook for writing bad checks. The point is that any in flight checks would cause a problem for the banks, which discourages traditional banks from adopting "innovative" ideas like freezing accounts en masse based on machine learning snake oil.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#130

Post by Animats »

kevin_b_er wrote: post #128
Animats wrote: post #37

Their terms are awful.[1] They can do whatever they want. Compare the terms from Bank of America, especially the "Withdrawal" section.[2] There are restrictions on how soon you can withdraw how much, and they tell you those up front. You can get at least $225 the day after a deposit. For new customers within 30 days of opening the account, withdrawals over $5,525 may be required to wait up to 5 days. For large cash w…

This is because Bank of America is a bank and Chime is not. Regulation CC requires much of what you just listed. First $200 available fast, and within a few days, the first $5000. > But remember, the Expedited Funds Availability Act requires the first $200 of a deposit that is not already subject to next-day availability to be made available by the first business day following the day of deposit. > Deposits into acco…

Regulation CC requires much of what you just listed.

Which is the whole point.

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