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Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

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Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#111
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is illustrative of my point; only the most well-equipped people (lawyers, people who know how to wardial, etc.) have any chance of grappling with the kafkaesque bullshit of modern corporate bureaucracy. If amazon wrongs you, you're fucked. If a shopkeeper wrongs you, you can go yell at the shopkeeper. I don't know if there's any legal framework that can fix this. I even have to admit that it might not be…

>If a shopkeeper wrongs you, you can go yell at the shopkeeper So, go buy your appliances from a local store, not Amazon or Lowe's or Home Depot. Do you, or do you not do that? Because you can totally do that.

When I can. Not for this reason, though - just because I don’t trust Amazon not to send me something used or a fake or something.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#112
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm obviously not proposing it as a solution - just pointing out that this used to be part of the social regulatory calculus and now it's gone.

It's gone because it worked so poorly for society. Most obvious consequence: the physically-strong can get more justice than the weak. Which leads inevitably to: the physically-strong make the rules. And social regulation has failed.

> It's gone because it worked so poorly for society.

No it’s not. It’s gone because it only works on kulaks and the kulak class is very small now.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#113
post #98
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regard to “automated customer handling” (I.e. intentionally wasting customers’ time and energy in the hope they give up) - I can’t help but feel that society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior. If some airline or bank puts you on hold for 4 hours, there’s no way to throw a few punches or whatever at the pe…

Seems to still exist in India https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-18/riot-brok...

Good for them!

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#114
post #72
post #37

Their terms are awful.[1] They can do whatever they want. Compare the terms from Bank of America, especially the "Withdrawal" section.[2] There are restrictions on how soon you can withdraw how much, and they tell you those up front. You can get at least $225 the day after a deposit. For new customers within 30 days of opening the account, withdrawals over $5,525 may be required to wait up to 5 days. For large cash w…

>[1] https://www.chime.com/policies/chime/chime-user-agreement/#t ... >You may terminate acceptance of this Agreement at any time by permanently deleting the Application in its entirety from the Authorized Device Who wrote this agreement? Clearly they have no idea how apps or online accounts work.

This is amazing. "Just delete the app" was commonly proposed as a joke solution on /r/wallstreetbets for people who managed to get their account deep into the red with one of the "infinite leverage" exploits.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#115
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And what good does it do me to have three months, six months, or heck 3 years worth of living expenses saved if the financial institution I've saved it with tells me that the account has been closed and the funds have been confiscated You have those funds spread out across multiple accounts, so if one goes down you still have access to some cash. you know, like a high availability cluster.

Or, you know, we could champion legislation that would prevent these banking institutions from arbitrarily seizing your money.

Even if you're sure you don't have flaky hardware, you should still have multiple servers with failover. In the same way, even if you're sure that the law is on your side when it comes to arbitrary seizures, you should keep multiple accounts.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#116

Ex-employee of chime here, joined early on (think first 10 employees) and spent half a decade working there. I can guess as to what is going on here. I am not sure if my NDA still covers me talking about stuff there, but most likely is what has happened was folks either: not using their accounts (this will trigger eventual closer) or legitimately engaging in practices that would be... improper in any banking system.…

Your assumption that these were scammers trying to pressure Chime to reopen their account contradicts explicit statements in the article:

> Chime confirmed that five of the anecdotes were well-founded; the company acknowledged making mistakes and returned each customers’ funds.

> The company confirmed, in interviews for this article, that it should not have closed Robertson’s account.

The article also addresses your claim that

> A few complaints like this aren't all that weird, bigger banks have way more complaints

by directly comparing the numbers, and Chime had by far the most (per customer):

> Of the 920 complaints filed about Chime, 197 were tagged as involving a “closed account.” The CFPB’s complaints are labeled inconsistently, and many of the other 723 also detail problems involving accounts that were closed against customers’ will. By comparison, Wells Fargo, a bank with six times as many customers and a lengthy recent history of misbehavior in its consumer bank, has 317 CFPB complaints tagged for closed accounts over the same time period. Marcus, the new online bank created by Goldman Sachs, with 4 million customers, has generated seven such complaints.

If I had to guess, it's growing pains combined with a "growth is more important than a few people accidentally getting crushed underneath" approach combined with pressure to do more about the fraud that led to this. If they're doing this and still accepting new customers, they're fully responsible for the pain they're inflicting.

At the very least, they could have tried to _actually_ make things right with the affected people:

> We have made efforts to make things right with these members.” (Robertson said that, beyond unfreezing her funds, Chime has not contacted her.)

This would mean compensating them for the time wasted, the stress and anguish caused, and financial cost (e.g. payday loans) incurred.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#117

I don’t understand why people choose a bank based on anything except excellent customer service. Its the one thing you need from them urgently when something inevitably fucks up.

I choose my bank based on low cost, because that's the only really visible variable.

"Excellent customer service" for me means never having to talk to the bank because everything just works, and it's incredibly difficult to judge how good banks are at that.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#118

I had an fraudulent account opened in Chime with my name/info (about a year ago). I contacted support when I received some weird marketing email for this service I never signed up for. I tried to talk to their support as it was obviously fraudulent and they wanted me to send in License/Docs proving my identity. Didn't trust them with a photo copy of my license since they were obviously terrible and just froze my cred…

What could they have done better here? I'd be more concerned had they just closed the account without verifying your identity, that would be bad.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#119
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, any bank can freeze your account for any reason. You can mitigate this somewhat by having accounts with multiple banks, but even then they can all be frozen at once. The benefit of a traditional bank is at least you can show up with an ID and beg for your money. Chime does indeed market to those who aren't financially doing great, but it's a very complicated situation. Everyone should have a minimum of 3…

And what good does it do me to have three months, six months, or heck 3 years worth of living expenses saved if the financial institution I've saved it with tells me that the account has been closed and the funds have been confiscated? We make fun of old people who lived through the Great Depression for keeping their money as cash or gold, but if this is the future of finance, well, gold bars under the mattress are l…

>We make fun of old people who lived through the Great Depression for keeping their money as cash or gold, but if this is the future of finance, well, gold bars under the mattress are looking batter and better with each passing day.

If only we had some way to store value that was more liquid and easier to store than pieces of gold...!

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#120
post #94
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the banking crisis days, I applied for a mortgage modification. I’m on top of paperwork and fax like a boss, so I made sure all of our documentation was in order and submitted ahead of schedule. Regardless, the bank tried to use every trick in the book to delay. I ended up war dialing all the extensions around my contact to find someone who worked there with access to my files to push it along. Ended up succe…

I think this is illustrative of my point; only the most well-equipped people (lawyers, people who know how to wardial, etc.) have any chance of grappling with the kafkaesque bullshit of modern corporate bureaucracy. If amazon wrongs you, you're fucked. If a shopkeeper wrongs you, you can go yell at the shopkeeper. I don't know if there's any legal framework that can fix this. I even have to admit that it might not be…

I didn’t learn this by being smart or well-to-do; this is the sort of guerrilla warfare that my working class father taught me. Street smarts take you far in life.

Also I think we have lost something when decisions are made far away from the consequences. If there is a decision made in SF that affects a population in Wichita, where the company has no ties or physical presence, it’s hard to empathize on either end. A lot of commerce depended on trust between parties that could see face to face. That’s sorely missing these days.

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