Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money • Hacker News Board

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#91

Post by inetsee » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

techsupporter wrote: post #14

> The sudden account closures have put financially vulnerable customers under stress. Of course they have. It's no accident that accounts like these are heavily marketed to people with terms like "faster access to YOUR money" and "virtually no fees" and "manage YOUR MONEY from anywhere, down to the penny!" These companies are targeting people for whom every single dollar is of vital importance. To then yank the accou…

"And of course there's a binding arbitration agreement, requiring all arbitration actions to be on an individual basis."

The CFPB Arbitration Rule "prohibits covered providers of certain consumer financial products and services from using an agreement with a consumer that provides for arbitration of any future dispute between the parties to bar the consumer from filing or participating in a class action concerning the covered consumer financial product or service." [1]

I also have this vague recollection of a story recently about a law firm filing large numbers of arbitration complaints against companies, resulting in very large bills for those companies, because they are required to pay for an authorized arbitrator for each and every arbitration complaint. Unfortunately, I can't find the link to the story.

So it sounds as if the people being ripped off by Chime do have some recourse, if they can just get together with a law firm that specializes in class action lawsuits.

[1] https://www.consumerfinance.gov/rules-policy/final-rules/arb...

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#92

Post by wyager » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #67

wyager wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not at all. I’m suggesting that the level of structural abstraction is a problem precisely because it prevents people from directing their rage where it actually matters.

Suppose your hypothetical was true, and whenever you had a grievance you would speak directly to an c-suite officer. What makes you think the corporate officer in question wouldn't take preventive measures to protect themselves from violence? Business in sketchy neighborhoods place their employees/cash register behind bulletproof glass to prevent this exact issue. If a small business can afford that kind of stuff to…

If they had to bear the cost in any way, they would be incentivized to reduce the amount of pain they're inflicting on customers. And of course I'm not literally proposing that people go and beat up execs; I'm just pointing out that for basically however long human civilization has existed, the scale was such that you always knew who, specifically, was causing you problems. Now it's all hidden behind a bunch of bullshit.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#93

Post by anonAndOn » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

inetsee wrote: post #91

techsupporter wrote: post #14

> The sudden account closures have put financially vulnerable customers under stress. Of course they have. It's no accident that accounts like these are heavily marketed to people with terms like "faster access to YOUR money" and "virtually no fees" and "manage YOUR MONEY from anywhere, down to the penny!" These companies are targeting people for whom every single dollar is of vital importance. To then yank the accou…

"And of course there's a binding arbitration agreement, requiring all arbitration actions to be on an individual basis." The CFPB Arbitration Rule "prohibits covered providers of certain consumer financial products and services from using an agreement with a consumer that provides for arbitration of any future dispute between the parties to bar the consumer from filing or participating in a class action concerning th…

>large numbers of arbitration complaints

Doordash tried to weasel out of their arbitration clause but was denied.

[0]https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/doordash-or...

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#94

Post by wyager » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 10:16 PM UTC

ipython wrote: post #71

wyager wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regard to “automated customer handling” (I.e. intentionally wasting customers’ time and energy in the hope they give up) - I can’t help but feel that society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior. If some airline or bank puts you on hold for 4 hours, there’s no way to throw a few punches or whatever at the pe…

Back in the banking crisis days, I applied for a mortgage modification. I’m on top of paperwork and fax like a boss, so I made sure all of our documentation was in order and submitted ahead of schedule. Regardless, the bank tried to use every trick in the book to delay. I ended up war dialing all the extensions around my contact to find someone who worked there with access to my files to push it along. Ended up succe…

I think this is illustrative of my point; only the most well-equipped people (lawyers, people who know how to wardial, etc.) have any chance of grappling with the kafkaesque bullshit of modern corporate bureaucracy. If amazon wrongs you, you're fucked. If a shopkeeper wrongs you, you can go yell at the shopkeeper. I don't know if there's any legal framework that can fix this. I even have to admit that it might not be socially optimal to fix this.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#95

Post by linsomniac » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 10:22 PM UTC

This sounds exactly like what has been reported as happening to One Finance over maybe the last month. Accounts being unexpected closed for "fraud" reasons, unable to say why they are closed, etc... One is also a "virtual bank" technology company that uses a banking partner. Reports are over in the subreddit for One: https://www.reddit.com/r/OneFinance/

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#96

Post by avs733 » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

thathndude wrote: post #76

techsupporter wrote: post #14

> The sudden account closures have put financially vulnerable customers under stress. Of course they have. It's no accident that accounts like these are heavily marketed to people with terms like "faster access to YOUR money" and "virtually no fees" and "manage YOUR MONEY from anywhere, down to the penny!" These companies are targeting people for whom every single dollar is of vital importance. To then yank the accou…

This is absolutely asinine. Find lawyers who will take these cases. Let’s make them feel the pain!

sure! lets have these people living at the absolute edge of their means take time, have the knowledge to find a good attorney, have transporation, and have the capital to pay a retainer...Meanwhile, not having access to their funds has serious immediate consequences that can (1) mean it the customer can't bring the case to fruition and/or (2) make any resolution effectively meaningless.

This is where a justice system and a law system diverge...justice without meaningful access is symbolic.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#97

Post by ebiester » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

quesera wrote: post #83

wyager wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regard to “automated customer handling” (I.e. intentionally wasting customers’ time and energy in the hope they give up) - I can’t help but feel that society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior. If some airline or bank puts you on hold for 4 hours, there’s no way to throw a few punches or whatever at the pe…

> society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior Wow, that's the most poorly-thought out idea I've read in recent memory. A few more seconds of consideration should be enough to come up with all the reasons this is such a terrible idea. But one that I can contribute from a slightly unusual perspective (working adja…

If things are so complex that someone can lose their money through an intricate set of rules, that's exactly the type of scummy behavior that we are talking about. It's not a matter of "whose" fault it is, but rather that a faceless group benefit from this type of behavior, and it is so complex that it is nearly impossible to avoid.

And there are no consequences.

Sometimes, it's a computer responsible for the decision.

These would not be so lightly regarded if someone had true consequences for this behavior. It turns into a complete lack of societal trust, something that people in turn are taken advantage by.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#98

Post by nn3 » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #31

techsupporter wrote: post #14

> The sudden account closures have put financially vulnerable customers under stress. Of course they have. It's no accident that accounts like these are heavily marketed to people with terms like "faster access to YOUR money" and "virtually no fees" and "manage YOUR MONEY from anywhere, down to the penny!" These companies are targeting people for whom every single dollar is of vital importance. To then yank the accou…

With regard to “automated customer handling” (I.e. intentionally wasting customers’ time and energy in the hope they give up) - I can’t help but feel that society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior. If some airline or bank puts you on hold for 4 hours, there’s no way to throw a few punches or whatever at the pe…

Seems to still exist in India

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-18/riot-brok...

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#99

Post by hndirect » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 10:41 PM UTC

mkmk wrote: post #25

silisili wrote: post #9

I don't see how anyone can take Chime seriously. I have a habit of checking out most new free banking apps, looking for the best deals, UI, security, etc. Chime immediately started sending my phone notifications with tons of emojis in them. It felt completely childish and I couldn't believe this was a legitimate company that people would put tons of money into.

Isn’t that just a generational thing? Presumably this is an intentional communication choice designed to appeal to younger users. So, even though it doesn’t match your own preferred communication style, it could actually be seen as a sign of competence in knowing one’s target market and how to best reach them.

It's the "How Do You Do Fellow Kids?" meme come to life.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#100

Post by gruez » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 10:45 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #92

gruez wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose your hypothetical was true, and whenever you had a grievance you would speak directly to an c-suite officer. What makes you think the corporate officer in question wouldn't take preventive measures to protect themselves from violence? Business in sketchy neighborhoods place their employees/cash register behind bulletproof glass to prevent this exact issue. If a small business can afford that kind of stuff to…

If they had to bear the cost in any way, they would be incentivized to reduce the amount of pain they're inflicting on customers. And of course I'm not literally proposing that people go and beat up execs; I'm just pointing out that for basically however long human civilization has existed, the scale was such that you always knew who , specifically, was causing you problems. Now it's all hidden behind a bunch of bull…

>If they had to bear the cost in any way, they would be incentivized to reduce the amount of pain they're inflicting on customers

Maybe? That might nudge execs into providing better customer service experience, but if I were an exec I sure as hell am not going to let my well-being depend on good customer experience alone. Eventually you're going to get a crazed lunatic that good customer service can't defuse, and for that reason I'm going to still require physical barriers and/or armed bodyguards.