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European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication

patrick-breyer.de

181–190 of 434 posts

Re: European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication

#181
post #146

Just to clarify a point for discussion: this is already the law in the USA, and always has been [0]. European privacy law formerly prohibited private entities from reading personal communications, and handing them over warrantlessly to governments (as I understand it (?)); but this was never a thing in the US. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine

From that source: In 1986, the United States Congress updated the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 by enacting the Electronic Communications Privacy Act which included an updated "Wiretap Act" and also extended Fourth Amendment-like protections to electronic communications in Title II of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, known as the Stored Communications Act . In Carpenter v. United States…

Those are great. Thanks for posting a very clear summary of two important points. It seems to be very hard to find and define on your own. Too bad they didn't make the same thing for credit card transactions, which are almost, and becoming more so, part of our anatomy. (Will the rules change if they are (injected chips, for instance.)

Re: European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication

#182

Can this be true? I'm having a hard time understanding how they can stand for internet privacy and legal mass surveillance simultaneously.

Because politicians want to look tough on child abuse.

Really? Child abuse stats are dropping like a stone. It's getting so bad that truly ridiculous things are being treated as child abuse, like for example a not-quite-divorce. Not "a bad divorce". Not "parents fighting".

Not divorced. Separated (meaning living apart for whatever reason, without getting legally divorced). I'd say for what time period, but there is literally no time period given. When kids are asked any time period is taken.

Siblings ... insulting each other ... is now child abuse. Seriously.

Serious medical problems of any caretaker figure ... is child abuse. WITHOUT any further qualification.

And of course, government facilities, whether homeless, or at this point even any hospital, all constitute child abuse. This is apparently not a problem, only parents are problematic ...

https://acestoohigh.com/got-your-ace-score/

Meanwhile, of course, the reputation of services attempting to address child abuse is atrocious. Violence is a constant everywhere in youth services in pretty much all countries. Both violence by youth services personnel, violence among kids within youth services, violence outside of youth services itself, but directly related (e.g. the police forcibly moving foster kids, or the reverse, drug couriers or prostitution rings "recruiting" in youth services, often with help from officials and/or caretakers)

And we all know their reputations when it comes to raising succesful kids:

https://www.kansascity.com/news/special-reports/article23820....

Child abuse, itself, is dying. Less and less convictions, every year again. But there is ever more interference in the life of children by the government, with demonstrated atrocious results. And they want to be tough on child abuse? This will destroy far more kids' lives than it will save ...

Re: European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication

#183
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't help if you don't control the ends of the end-to-end part. We don't control iOS nor Android on most devices. In general this holds: There's no privacy on the internet.

If you care about it, switch to Librem 5 or Pinephone.

Neither of these can access the financial services provided by my bank nor the infrastructure provided by my city

Re: European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication

#184
post #155
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is not a sovereign state. The EU chopped up UK business marketshare, business leadership, professional lives for little more than a gram of power. I feel like it is necessary to point out the similarities between the CCP and European Parliament. >72% of citizens oppose digital monitoring, while 77% of their representatives vote for laws they emphatically do not want

Brexit is now the EU's fault, right.

The EU's behavior during Brexit is at the very least suspect.

Re: European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication

#185

> Previously secure end-to-end encrypted messenger services such as Whatsapp or Signal would be forced to install a backdoor. This is surely a fantastic extrapolation of this author. The chance of this happening is zero, which is also the chance of this being explicitly stated in the legal text. It would be a disaster of course. And extremely controversial. Which is why it doesn’t just get passed under the radar, eve…

> the chance of this happening is zero

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/471/227/dd0...

Re: European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication

#187

Full name list ECR: Bourgeois, Jurzyca, Kanko, Melbārde, Terheş, Van Overtveldt, Zīle NI: Beghin, Buschmann, Castaldo, Comín i Oliveres, Ferrara, Furore, Gemma, Giarrusso, Gyöngyösi, Pignedoli, Ponsatí Obiols, Puigdemont i Casamajó, Regimenti, Rondinelli, Rookmaker, Sinčić, Sonneborn, Vuolo PPE: Adamowicz, Ademov, Adinolfi Isabella, Alexandrov Yordanov, Amaro, Arias Echeverría, Arimont, Arłukowicz, Asimakopoulou, Băs…

Is this the correct list? The document at https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-9-2021-07-0... seems to list votes for multiple proposals. AFAICT, the voting list for this proposal starts on page 5:

Use of technologies for the processing of data for the purpose of combating online child sexual abuse (temporary derogation from Directive 2002/58/EC)

In favour:

ECR: Aguilar, Berg, Berlato, Bielan, Bourgeois, Brudziński, Buxadé Villalba, Czarnecki, de la Pisa Carrión, Dzhambazki, Fidanza, Fiocchi, Fitto, Fotyga, Fragkos, Ilčić, Jaki, Jurgiel, Jurzyca, Kanko, Karski, Kempa, Kloc, Kopcińska, Krasnodębski, Kruk, Kuźmiuk, Legutko, Lundgren, Mazurek, Melbārde, Milazzo, Możdżanowska, Poręba, Procaccini, Rafalska, Ruissen, Rzońca, Saryusz-Wolski, Slabakov, Sofo, Stancanelli, Stegrud, Szydło, Tarczyński, Tertsch, Tobiszowski, Tomaševski, Tošenovský, Van Overtveldt, Vondra, Vrecionová, Waszczykowski, Weimers, Wiśniewska, Zahradil, Zalewska, Zīle, Złotowski

ID: Adinolfi Matteo, Androuët, Annemans, Baldassarre, Bardella, Basso, Bay, Beigneux, Bilde, Bizzotto, Bonfrisco, Borchia, Bruna, Campomenosi, Casanova, Ceccardi, Ciocca, Collard, Conte, Da Re, David, De Man, Dreosto, Gancia, Garraud, Grant, Griset, Hakkarainen, Huhtasaari, Jamet, Joron, Juvin, Kofod, Lacapelle, Lancini, Laporte, Lebreton, Lechanteux, Lizzi, Madison, Mariani, Mélin, Olivier, Panza, Pirbakas, Rinaldi, Rivière, Rougé, Sardone, Tardino, Tovaglieri, Vandendriessche, Zambelli, Zanni

NI: Beghin, Bocskor, Castaldo, Deli, Deutsch, Ferrara, Furore, Gál, Gemma, Giarrusso, Gyöngyösi, Győri, Gyürk, Hidvéghi, Járóka, Kolakušić, Kósa, Lagos, Pignedoli, Regimenti, Rondinelli, Schaller-Baross, Tóth, Trócsányi, Uspaskich, Vuolo

PPE: Adamowicz, Ademov, Adinolfi Isabella, Alexandrov Yordanov, Amaro, Arias Echeverría, Arimont, Arłukowicz, Asimakopoulou, Băsescu, Bellamy, Benjumea Benjumea, Bentele, Berendsen, Berger, Berlusconi, Bernhuber, Bilčík, Blaga, Bogdan, Bogovič, Buda, Buşoi, Caroppo, Carvalho, Casa, Caspary, del Castillo Vera, Christoforou, Clune, Colin-Oesterlé, van Dalen, Danjean, De Meo, Didier, Doleschal, Dorfmann, Duda, Düpont, Ehler, Estaràs Ferragut, Evren, Falcă, Ferber, Fernandes, Fitzgerald, Fourlas, Frankowski, Gahler, García-Margallo y Marfil, Geuking, Gieseke, Glavak, González Pons, Halicki, Hansen, Hava, Herbst, Hetman, Hohlmeier, Hölvényi, Hortefeux, Hübner, Jahr, Jarubas, Juknevičienė, Kalinowski, Kalniete, Kanev, Karas, Kefalogiannis, Kelly, Kopacz, Kovatchev, Kubilius, Kympouropoulos, Kyrtsos, de Lange, Lega, Lenaers, Lewandowski, Lexmann, Liese, Lins, López Gil, López-Istúriz White, Łukacijewska, Lutgen, McAllister, Maldeikienė, Manders, Mandl, Marinescu, Markey, Martusciello, Mato, Maydell, Mažylis, Meimarakis, Melo, Metsola, Millán Mon, Monteiro de Aguiar, Montserrat, Morano, Mortler, Motreanu, Mureşan, Niebler, Niedermayer, Nistor, Novak, Novakov, Ochojska, Olbrycht, Patriciello, Pereira Lídia, Pieper, Pietikäinen, Polčák, Polfjärd, Pollák, Pospíšil, Radev, Radtke, Rangel, Ressler, Sagartz, Salini, Sander, Sarvamaa, Schmiedtbauer, Schneider, Schreijer-Pierik, Schulze, Schwab, Seekatz, Sikorski, Simon, Skyttedal, Šojdrová, Sokol, Spyraki, Štefanec, Tajani, Terras, Thaler, Thun und Hohenstein, Tobé, Tomac, Tomc, Vaidere, Vandenkendelaere, Verheyen, Vincze, Virkkunen, Voss, Vozemberg-Vrionidi, Walsh, Walsmann, Warborn, Weber, Weiss, Wieland, Wiezik, Winkler, Winzig, Wiseler-Lima, Zagorakis, Zarzalejos, Zdechovský, Zoido Álvarez, Zovko, Zver

Renew: Alieva-Veli, Al-Sahlani, Andrews, Ansip, Auštrevičius, Azmani, Bauzá Díaz, Bijoux, Bilbao Barandica, Botoş, Boyer, Brunet, Cañas, Canfin, Chabaud, Charanzová, Chastel, Christensen, Cicurel, Cioloş, Cseh, Danti, Decerle, Dlabajová, Donáth, Durand, Ďuriš Nicholsonová, Farreng, Flego, Gade, Garicano, Gheorghe, Goerens, Gozi, Groothuis, Grošelj, Grudler, Guetta, Hayer, Hlaváček, Hojsík, Huitema, Ijabs, in 't Veld, Karleskind, Karlsbro, Katainen, Kelleher, Keller Fabienne, Knotek, Kovařík, Kyuchyuk, Loiseau, Løkkegaard, Mihaylova, Mituța, Müller, Nagtegaal, Nart, Paet, Pagazaurtundúa, Pekkarinen, Petersen, Pîslaru, Rafaela, Ries, Riquet, Rodríguez Ramos, Schreinemacher, Séjourné, Semedo, Šimečka, Solís Pérez, Ştefănuță, Strugariu, Søgaard-Lidell, Tolleret, Toom, Torvalds, Trillet-Lenoir, Tudorache, Vautmans, Vedrenne, Verhofstadt, Vázquez Lázara, Wiesner, Yon-Courtin, Zacharopoulou, Zullo

S&D: Agius Saliba, Aguilera, Ameriks, Andrieu, Androulakis, Angel, Ara-Kovács, Arena, Avram, Balt, Bartolo, Belka, Benea, Benifei, Beňová, Bergkvist, Biedroń, Blinkevičiūtė, Bonafè, Borzan, Brglez, Bullmann, Calenda, Carvalhais, Cerdas, Chinnici, Cimoszewicz, Ciuhodaru, Číž, Cozzolino, Crețu, Cutajar, Danielsson, De Castro, Dobrev, Durá Ferrandis, Engerer, Ertug, Fajon, Fernández, Fritzon, Fuglsang, Gálvez Muñoz, García Del Blanco, García Muñoz, García Pérez, Gardiazabal Rubial, Gebhardt, Geier, Glucksmann, González, González Casares, Grapini, Gualmini, Guillaume, Guteland, Hajšel, Heide, Heinäluoma, Homs Ginel, Hristov, Incir, Jerković, Kaili, Kaljurand, Kohut, Köster, Krehl, Kumpula-Natri, Lalucq, Lange, Larrouturou, Leitão-Marques, López, López Aguilar, Luena, Maestre Martín De Almagro, Majorino, Maldonado López, Marques Margarida, Marques Pedro, Matić, Mavrides, Maxová, Mebarek, Mikser, Miller, Molnár, Moreno Sánchez, Moretti, Negrescu, Neuser, Nica, Olekas, Papadakis Demetris, Penkova, Picierno, Picula, Pisapia, Pizarro, Plumb, Regner, Roberti, Rodríguez-Piñero, Rónai, Ros Sempere, Ruiz Devesa, Sánchez Amor, Sant, Santos, Schaldemose, Schieder, Schuster, Sidl, Silva Pereira, Sippel, Smeriglio, Stanishev, Tarabella, Tinagli, Toia, Tudose, Ujhelyi, Ušakovs, Van Brempt, Vind, Vitanov, Vollath, Yoncheva, Zorrinho

The Left: Maurel

Verts/ALE: Dalunde, Holmgren, Kuhnke, Ropė

Re: European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication

#188
post #101
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do we do?

Well you can do what we did in the UK: the non apathetic portion of propagandised society collectively decided to exit the EU backed by some dubious political and financial motives, immediately followed by slow deregulation and privatisation of everything while embracing corruption and nepotism. So you can live in a rising socialist surveillance dystopia or robocop style capitalist dystopia. It's political hysteresis…

What has been privatised recently? Train operating companies have been nationalised, but I'm not aware of any privatisation taking place. There is talk of Channel 4 but that is it as far as I can tell.

Re: European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication

#189
post #185

> Previously secure end-to-end encrypted messenger services such as Whatsapp or Signal would be forced to install a backdoor. This is surely a fantastic extrapolation of this author. The chance of this happening is zero, which is also the chance of this being explicitly stated in the legal text. It would be a disaster of course. And extremely controversial. Which is why it doesn’t just get passed under the radar, eve…

> the chance of this happening is zero https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/471/227/dd0...

Why would a company in the US (Signal) decide to comply with the doctrine of another country, especially a doctrine antithetical to their entire business?

Re: European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication

#190
post #90
post #6

Do they want everyone to switch en masse to end-to-end encrypted communications? Because this is how you encourage that.

More end to end encryption use only means more laws banning encryption faster. Or do you really think that when for example DoH gains wider adoption all the countries using DNS based blocking will go "Oh well guess the techies got us".

Which is ironically self defeating after major multiple security product breaches. Laws banning encryption or requiring backdoors as well as the practice of secret court warrants discourage fundamental investment in strong encryption products and standards.
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