I'm curious, what are the preventive precautions to be taken to minimize the chances of chronic pain altogether?
A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time
81–90 of 178 posts
Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time
#82Sounds similar to what Saluda medical does.
Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Complete elimination of pain is probably not a good idea, for sure. But the ability to actively shut off pain once you've acknowledged the problem, or at least numb it down to it not being completely debilitating, could be useful.
I recently had a very large kidney stone and let me tell you... It was bad enough to make me vomit. In cases like this it would be great to be able to self-medicate the pain. However, I can also see how it could be abused to say "ah, it's not that bad" and not have the problem resolved. In my case, it could lead to permanent kidney damage.
I had a 5mm stone in late 2018. Even if a therapy based on this research had existed at that time, I doubt anyone would have suggested brain surgery when I presented with an acute abdomen at the ER. Granted I did end up having to have surgery for another stone the following year, but that surgery definitely did not have anything to do with my brain beyond anesthesia. That's not really the end of a human in which urologists specialize, you know?
It'd be one thing if I had a pre-existing chronic pain condition for which I'd already had such an implant installed, but even in that case I'd have to have enough access to ongoing care to have someone I could call and say "this hurts in a way that's new." The implant itself would need the same kind of management as does a pacemaker or ICD, I imagine. So it seems not tremendously likely that the scenario you describe would play out in practice.
(In any case, I'm good enough at withstanding pain that I waited two full days before deciding it was time to go to the ER, and even at that raised the mild suspicion of the doctor who attended me on the basis of how I wasn't screaming, vomiting, swearing, or otherwise showing much of anything beyond being pale and dehydrated. If it hadn't been for CT results unquestionably showing the calculus, I might've had some trouble with being misidentified as a drug seeker. So I'm not super sure the implant poses much more of a risk for inadvertent self-harm, you know? If I'd been in a worse way than I was, I could well have lost a kidney entirely through sheer stubbornness, no brain implant required.)
Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
The brain is far more robust than often assumed. Read up on Anatoli Bugorski for example. He had rather significant brain damage yet there was virtually no damage to his intellectual capacity. He did suffer from seizures after the accident, but that’s about it. These kinds of implants have serious risks including infections etc, but for people with long term chronic pain there are few options.
I am so glad they are actively working on alleviating pain. I know a guy who had horrid back pain. He was ok with opoids. He even admitted they reduced his pain, but he just felt better about life being on them. His doctor just decided to not prescribe opoids for any reason. My friend is miserable now, and takes too much Ibuprofen.
> His doctor just decided to not prescribe opoids for any reason.
From my unerstanding, you can only take them for about a week before they become addictive, and that in itself is fine, but they become less and less effective as time goes on as well. You've got to take more and more to get the same effect.
Opioids are really only good for short-term pain. Also, doctors are really under the gun right now because they have been overprescribing opioids for years and a non-trivial segment of the population (at least in the US) is addicted to them.
Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
The brain is far more robust than often assumed. Read up on Anatoli Bugorski for example. He had rather significant brain damage yet there was virtually no damage to his intellectual capacity. He did suffer from seizures after the accident, but that’s about it. These kinds of implants have serious risks including infections etc, but for people with long term chronic pain there are few options.
I am so glad they are actively working on alleviating pain. I know a guy who had horrid back pain. He was ok with opoids. He even admitted they reduced his pain, but he just felt better about life being on them. His doctor just decided to not prescribe opoids for any reason. My friend is miserable now, and takes too much Ibuprofen.
Any reason for ibuprofen instead of paracetamol? Ibuprofen can damage your gastrointestinal tract.
Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am so glad they are actively working on alleviating pain. I know a guy who had horrid back pain. He was ok with opoids. He even admitted they reduced his pain, but he just felt better about life being on them. His doctor just decided to not prescribe opoids for any reason. My friend is miserable now, and takes too much Ibuprofen.
Any reason for ibuprofen instead of paracetamol? Ibuprofen can damage your gastrointestinal tract.
Paracetamol can damage your liver. Neither are great options to take too much of.
Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time
#87I always feel so confused by--and skeptical of--these kinds of brain implant technologies. It says: "The chip then automatically triggers a light beam to stimulate the region, activating neurons that can override pain signals." Isn't that potentially stimulating millions or even hundreds of millions of neurons? We don't know what each individual neuron is doing. How is it possible to do this without causing bizarre m…
> Isn't that potentially stimulating millions or even hundreds of millions of neurons? We don't know what each individual neuron is doing. How is it possible to do this without causing bizarre malfunctions of the brain at best, or completely lobotomizing someone at worst?
Many psychiatric drugs affect large parts of the brain despite the drugs' efficacies being determined by their effects on much smaller parts of the brain.
For example, some anxiolytic and antidepressant effects are mediated by changes at certain serotonin-1A receptors in certain parts of the brain, yet common drugs like SSRIs change serotonin levels all over the brain and body.
You could categorize SSRI-induced activation of 5HT2C receptors as a 'bizarre malfunction', as it causes increased anxiety and dysphoria, which is the opposite of what you'd want if you're trying to treat anxiety or depression.
Alcohol works like this in the body, as well.
I'm skeptical of most brain implants for other reasons[1], though.
Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time
#88Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time
#89Re: A new brain implant automatically detects and kills pain in real time
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am so glad they are actively working on alleviating pain. I know a guy who had horrid back pain. He was ok with opoids. He even admitted they reduced his pain, but he just felt better about life being on them. His doctor just decided to not prescribe opoids for any reason. My friend is miserable now, and takes too much Ibuprofen.
> His doctor just decided to not prescribe opoids for any reason. From my unerstanding, you can only take them for about a week before they become addictive, and that in itself is fine, but they become less and less effective as time goes on as well. You've got to take more and more to get the same effect. Opioids are really only good for short-term pain. Also, doctors are really under the gun right now because they…
I hope your friend can seek another doctor if this is debilitating. Empathy doesn’t always get a fair voice in prescribing guidelines / decisions