Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money • Hacker News Board

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#51

Post by kstrauser » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

techsupporter wrote: post #47

syshum wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like this should be using credit unions, not banks. Credit Unions where created to service customers that would not profitable for a normal bank, many decades ago I was one of those customers... Still today, even though my financial situation is far better, refuse to put any of my money in bank after the treatment I received from them. I have been with my current credit union for 20+ years, I love them, every…

Sure, but consider the marketing. Opening an account at a credit union requires: - Knowing the credit union exists and which ones someone can join (not all of them are "anyone in [region]") - Going to the credit union during business hours (no mean feat; several of the credit unions around me have shorter hours on Friday and three hours on Saturday) - Qualifying for an account, and not just membership. Lots of credit…

Our CU lets you apply online. I've been to their physical location once in my life, and that's when a scammer stole my debit card number. I could either wait for the replacement to show up in the mail, or swing by their office to pick one up over lunch.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#52

Post by ericlewis » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

TillE wrote: post #42

ericlewis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people weirdly enough really enjoy those, but marketing has gotten out of hand lately.

Do they? I mean, even if that's how someone talks to their friends, from some faceless company's mass communication it's at best inauthentic and try-hard.

when they were smaller it was more endearing, I agree now that it is too much.

edit: and disingenuous at best

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#53

Post by ericlewis » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #31

techsupporter wrote: post #14

> The sudden account closures have put financially vulnerable customers under stress. Of course they have. It's no accident that accounts like these are heavily marketed to people with terms like "faster access to YOUR money" and "virtually no fees" and "manage YOUR MONEY from anywhere, down to the penny!" These companies are targeting people for whom every single dollar is of vital importance. To then yank the accou…

With regard to “automated customer handling” (I.e. intentionally wasting customers’ time and energy in the hope they give up) - I can’t help but feel that society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior. If some airline or bank puts you on hold for 4 hours, there’s no way to throw a few punches or whatever at the pe…

to be fair, this was never the intention of "automated customer handling" the system I built while working there though got ruined -- the actual low level employees at Chime do not in anyway agree with this automated bullshit.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#54

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #46

gruez wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can’t help but feel that society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior. If some airline or bank puts you on hold for 4 hours, there’s no way to throw a few punches or whatever at the people who are responsible. Yes, beating up the low level, minimum wage employee who has zero power over your circumstances is de…

My comment is precisely that the people who are actually responsible for your problems are shielded from repercussions by either minimum wage support reps or automated phone systems.

[deleted]

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#55

Post by 41209 » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

techsupporter wrote: post #14

> The sudden account closures have put financially vulnerable customers under stress. Of course they have. It's no accident that accounts like these are heavily marketed to people with terms like "faster access to YOUR money" and "virtually no fees" and "manage YOUR MONEY from anywhere, down to the penny!" These companies are targeting people for whom every single dollar is of vital importance. To then yank the accou…

To be fair, any bank can freeze your account for any reason.

You can mitigate this somewhat by having accounts with multiple banks, but even then they can all be frozen at once. The benefit of a traditional bank is at least you can show up with an ID and beg for your money.

Chime does indeed market to those who aren't financially doing great, but it's a very complicated situation. Everyone should have a minimum of 3 months in living expenses saved, but very few do

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#56

Post by willcipriano » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

TillE wrote: post #42

ericlewis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people weirdly enough really enjoy those, but marketing has gotten out of hand lately.

Do they? I mean, even if that's how someone talks to their friends, from some faceless company's mass communication it's at best inauthentic and try-hard.

I am really looking for a Jeeves[0] like demeanor when you have thousands of my dollars. "Yes sir, right away sir." not "Sure bro ;) *eggplant emoji*"

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeeves_and_Wooster

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#57

Post by gruez » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #46

gruez wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can’t help but feel that society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior. If some airline or bank puts you on hold for 4 hours, there’s no way to throw a few punches or whatever at the people who are responsible. Yes, beating up the low level, minimum wage employee who has zero power over your circumstances is de…

My comment is precisely that the people who are actually responsible for your problems are shielded from repercussions by either minimum wage support reps or automated phone systems.

What are you suggesting, that without telephones, you can beat the front line worker up, in hopes that he'll get mad and beat his boss up, and the violence will continue up the chain until it reaches the person responsible?

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#58

Post by amacneil » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

ericlewis wrote: post #24

Ex-employee of chime here, joined early on (think first 10 employees) and spent half a decade working there. I can guess as to what is going on here. I am not sure if my NDA still covers me talking about stuff there, but most likely is what has happened was folks either: not using their accounts (this will trigger eventual closer) or legitimately engaging in practices that would be... improper in any banking system.…

Sounds accurate from my experience working in fintech (crypto, not banking, but subject to many the same regulations). We would literally have customers with dozens of transactions referring to drug deals, close their account (as required by both federal law and our banking partners), and then have them go around filing complaints and starting reddit threads about how bad we are for closing their account. You can't take complaints like this at face value without knowing the full story (even if people complain to the media).

The reality in the US is that financial institutions are liable for detecting any and all illegal activity on their platforms, reporting it to FinCEN, and closing accounts. If you fail to do this you lose your money transmission licenses and/or banking partnership. Depending on the exact nature of the issue, holding customer money hostage can even be a legal requirement.

Scaling up support at fintech companies is definitely hard, and certainly the companies can and should do a better job of this. But dealing with the regulatory burden is also crazy difficult, and many folks doing shady stuff (fraud, drugs, money laundering, CP, etc etc) are more likely to use the newer platforms.

Real banks often just don't have to deal with this as much, because they make you sign up in person, with ID, and ask you all sorts of questions about your source of income etc up front. However, real banks can and do also close customer accounts (used to be very common for folks who bought crypto with their checking account, for example).

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#59

Post by kotaKat » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

ericlewis wrote: post #24

Ex-employee of chime here, joined early on (think first 10 employees) and spent half a decade working there. I can guess as to what is going on here. I am not sure if my NDA still covers me talking about stuff there, but most likely is what has happened was folks either: not using their accounts (this will trigger eventual closer) or legitimately engaging in practices that would be... improper in any banking system.…

They are. The last several(!) cases I've seen of people complaining Chime killed their accounts got (possibly fraudulent) PPP loans funneled into their accounts.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#60

Post by wyager » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #57

wyager wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment is precisely that the people who are actually responsible for your problems are shielded from repercussions by either minimum wage support reps or automated phone systems.

What are you suggesting, that without telephones, you can beat the front line worker up, in hopes that he'll get mad and beat his boss up, and the violence will continue up the chain until it reaches the person responsible?

No, not at all. I’m suggesting that the level of structural abstraction is a problem precisely because it prevents people from directing their rage where it actually matters.