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Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

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Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#31

> The sudden account closures have put financially vulnerable customers under stress. Of course they have. It's no accident that accounts like these are heavily marketed to people with terms like "faster access to YOUR money" and "virtually no fees" and "manage YOUR MONEY from anywhere, down to the penny!" These companies are targeting people for whom every single dollar is of vital importance. To then yank the accou…

With regard to “automated customer handling” (I.e. intentionally wasting customers’ time and energy in the hope they give up) - I can’t help but feel that society has lost a critical social regulatory mechanism, in the form of being able to physically beat up people who repeatedly exhibit scummy behavior. If some airline or bank puts you on hold for 4 hours, there’s no way to throw a few punches or whatever at the people who are responsible. For most of human evolution, there was always someone you could hold personally and physically accountable. Now that this check no longer exists, it’s no surprise that kafkaesque bureaucratic bullshit has exploded in popularity with customer-facing megacorps. I don’t really have a solution to propose here - maybe encourage people to vandalize corporate HQs if they’re egregiously wronged? It doesn’t feel like a very good solution.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IAAL but this is not legal advice. It sounds like it depends. If the bank has good reason to believe the funds are fraudulently sourced, then it may lawfully be entitled to hold them until it can be shown (either to their satisfaction, or to the satisfaction of a court) that the funds are legitimate.

It also depends on whether and how the funds actually made it to the FDIC insured institution. If Chime didn’t deposit the funds or if the funds weren’t deposited in a segregated custody account FBO Chime customers (as opposed to co-mingled with Chime’s corporate cash) then it’s a lot less of a guarantee because they could be tied up with potential creditor claims to Chime’s cash. That being said, the article makes m…

the user accounts are def segregated from corp

- ex-chimer

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#33
post #6

That’s why I don’t trust any of these new trendy banking apps; better to stick with established institutions IMO. Not that they’re great either but at least you won’t be in a situation like this, or at the very least they’ll have better customer support.

It's why I switched everything to a combination of [boring established brokerage] and a credit union that's been around for almost 100 years. Their apps are mediocre and some of the more complicated account changes require a mix of faxed forms and phone support that's only available during normal business hours. But they're unlikely to mess things up very much and they're hopefully less likely to sell or leak all of…

I'm in the same boat, with half my checking in the brokerage and half in the credit union. Some recent changes to the credit union(merging/renaming/ui changes) have been frustrating me and I've thought about rolling everything to the brokerage's offering, but the redundancy is nice for a situation like described here. Knock on wood though since it hasn't happened yet.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#34

Ex-employee of chime here, joined early on (think first 10 employees) and spent half a decade working there. I can guess as to what is going on here. I am not sure if my NDA still covers me talking about stuff there, but most likely is what has happened was folks either: not using their accounts (this will trigger eventual closer) or legitimately engaging in practices that would be... improper in any banking system.…

>A few complaints like this aren't all that weird, bigger banks have way more complaints and do way worse things.

The article directly contradicts what you're saying. Do you think the piece paints an unfair or inaccurate characterization of the complaints? (from the article)

>Of the 920 complaints filed about Chime, 197 were tagged as involving a “closed account.” The CFPB’s complaints are labeled inconsistently, and many of the other 723 also detail problems involving accounts that were closed against customers’ will. By comparison, Wells Fargo, a bank with six times as many customers and a lengthy recent history of misbehavior in its consumer bank, has 317 CFPB complaints tagged for closed accounts over the same time period. Marcus, the new online bank created by Goldman Sachs, with 4 million customers, has generated seven such complaints.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#35

Ex-employee of chime here, joined early on (think first 10 employees) and spent half a decade working there. I can guess as to what is going on here. I am not sure if my NDA still covers me talking about stuff there, but most likely is what has happened was folks either: not using their accounts (this will trigger eventual closer) or legitimately engaging in practices that would be... improper in any banking system.…

> I chalk this up to their massive size (well over 12,000,000 customers) and a large portion of refusing to scale up Human Resources and instead trying to use to tech to deal with a lot of this.

This is the unfortunate side of disruptive tech. It can't - and shouldn't - replace people. But it seems the allure of cost controls is too strong even if it hurts customers, and eventually the business.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#36
post #3

This happens on the regular with established "normal" banks in the UK and other EU countries. I believe US banks also have the right to suspend accounts for "fraudulent activity", correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore, you can't expect banking startups to be any better. Fix it on a higher level.

What we've seen in many cases is startup banks coming to the market with a streamlined onboarding (open your bank account in 5 minutes over videochat), and then realizing that many accounts are used for money laundering. They eventually get a warning from the financial authorities and subsequently implement fraud detection algorithms that might be a little too trigger happy, to be on the safe side.

It wouldn't be an issue if you could appeal and talk to a human, but challenger banks are, by design, understaffed, and they have no legal obligation to explain why they're terminating your account.

However I haven't heard of any bank (proper bank, with a license, challenger or otherwise) keeping your money in such case.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#37
Their terms are awful.[1] They can do whatever they want.

Compare the terms from Bank of America, especially the "Withdrawal" section.[2] There are restrictions on how soon you can withdraw how much, and they tell you those up front. You can get at least $225 the day after a deposit. For new customers within 30 days of opening the account, withdrawals over $5,525 may be required to wait up to 5 days. For large cash withdrawals, you may need to go to a "cash vault" center and provide you own armored car. Stuff like that.

[1] https://www.chime.com/policies/chime/chime-user-agreement/#t... [2] https://www.bankofamerica.com/salesservices/deposits/resourc...

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#38

Ex-employee of chime here, joined early on (think first 10 employees) and spent half a decade working there. I can guess as to what is going on here. I am not sure if my NDA still covers me talking about stuff there, but most likely is what has happened was folks either: not using their accounts (this will trigger eventual closer) or legitimately engaging in practices that would be... improper in any banking system.…

>A few complaints like this aren't all that weird, bigger banks have way more complaints and do way worse things. The article directly contradicts what you're saying. Do you think the piece paints an unfair or inaccurate characterization of the complaints? (from the article) >Of the 920 complaints filed about Chime, 197 were tagged as involving a “closed account.” The CFPB’s complaints are labeled inconsistently, and…

I think that people are more quick to react against Chime than they are the folks who also hold their insurance, mortgages, and possibly other things. Lest they have even more issues with the bank. I don't doubt Chime handles things wrong, but I do know that every person on that team when I was there did there best to try and resolve the issue.

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#39

> The sudden account closures have put financially vulnerable customers under stress. Of course they have. It's no accident that accounts like these are heavily marketed to people with terms like "faster access to YOUR money" and "virtually no fees" and "manage YOUR MONEY from anywhere, down to the penny!" These companies are targeting people for whom every single dollar is of vital importance. To then yank the accou…

People like this should be using credit unions, not banks.

Credit Unions where created to service customers that would not profitable for a normal bank, many decades ago I was one of those customers... Still today, even though my financial situation is far better, refuse to put any of my money in bank after the treatment I received from them. I have been with my current credit union for 20+ years, I love them, every loan I have gotten from auto to mortgage in the last 15 years is also run through a credit union...

Credit Unions is where it is at, people need to be educated to use them

Re: Chime has been suddenly closing accounts, not returning customers’ money

#40
post #35

Ex-employee of chime here, joined early on (think first 10 employees) and spent half a decade working there. I can guess as to what is going on here. I am not sure if my NDA still covers me talking about stuff there, but most likely is what has happened was folks either: not using their accounts (this will trigger eventual closer) or legitimately engaging in practices that would be... improper in any banking system.…

> I chalk this up to their massive size (well over 12,000,000 customers) and a large portion of refusing to scale up Human Resources and instead trying to use to tech to deal with a lot of this. This is the unfortunate side of disruptive tech. It can't - and shouldn't - replace people. But it seems the allure of cost controls is too strong even if it hurts customers, and eventually the business.

I argued this constantly, I was in charge of mobile and it made me furious when bad CSR resulted in our actually pretty great mobile apps getting bad reviews. I am also guilty of creating the chat bot that is used by Chime, though I created it for a very different purpose from how it is used today and management basically mutilated something that actually worked pretty great.
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