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An AI wolf that preferred suicide over eating sheep

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Re: An AI wolf that preferred suicide over eating sheep

#151
post #13
post #4

I'm reminded of the fable (in Nick Bostrom's Superintelligence ) of the chess computer that ended up murdering anyone who tried to turn it off because in order to optimize winning chess games as programmed it has to be on and functional.

Interestingly I was just today explaining the paperclip optimizer scenario to a friend who asked about the dangers of AI, including the fact that there's almost no general optimization task that doesn't (with a sufficiently long lookahead) involve taking over the world as an intermediate step. (Obviously closed, specific tasks like "land this particular rocket safely within 15 minutes" don't always lead to this, but…

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Re: An AI wolf that preferred suicide over eating sheep

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shrug. Another way to frame this is a poker bot learned to fold when given a bad hand, and they only gave it the same bad hand. Yes, yes, woe is the individual in modern capitalist society but the only reason people are reacting to this are that they don't understand it and they've been told it's something much more emotionally impactful than it actually is.

>but the only reason people are reacting to this are that they don't understand it I think it's much more likely that they're reacting like this because they see their own plight in the wolf. It doesn't matter why the wolf killed itself, it became a meme that allowed many Chinese to reflect together on a common plight.

I think there's a bit more to the analogy than just the suicidal wolf, though. The wolf is offing itself to minimize loss because there's no clear path to a better outcome.

This seems like a common refrain when we see radicalized engineering students from less-developed countries, who are notably common in extremist groups. They're people on a very difficult path (an engineering program!) with no real path to success (living in a society where unemployment for people with degrees is very high). Cost for continuing on the path is high, and there's no obvious path to get the good outcomes.

Re: An AI wolf that preferred suicide over eating sheep

#153

We don't have AI. AI is a buzzphrase overused by the media. What we have is Machine Learning (ML). If and only if, we get past the roadblock of the 'agent' creating some usable knowledge out of an unprogrammed experience, and forming conclusions based on that, will we have AI. For now, the mantra 'Garbage-in-garbage-out' applies; if the controller of the agent gets their rule-set wrong, the agent will not behave as e…

Nah we have loads of AI now that don't need variable tweaking, like the OpenAI project that plays any retro game.

Re: An AI wolf that preferred suicide over eating sheep

#154
post #79

Seems like a nothing story. Just looking at the game, there's obviously a constant decision to be made of chase more sheep or instantly die. It sounds like in the original model they had a max of 20 seconds, so it's not surprising that you would just tank your losses to maximize your score every now and then. Anyone who tries to devise optimal strategies for things should be able to see this isn't especially interest…

If I remember correctly there were similar scenarios that would occur using that popular Berkeley Pacman universe where he would run into a ghost to avoid the penalty of living for too long.

It reminds me of the thread about the Quake 3 bots, who left alone for several years, figured out that the best approach was to not kill each other.

https://i.imgur.com/dx7sVXj.jpg

Re: An AI wolf that preferred suicide over eating sheep

#156
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The story must have strongly resonated with what some folks were already feeling. Yes, because we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.

At a Grateful Dead show in Oakland this geezer said to me: Your perception IS your reality man!

Schopenhauer: World as representation.

Re: An AI wolf that preferred suicide over eating sheep

#157
post #55
post #29

I think a major takeaway here is that balancing a reward system to reward more than a single behavior is really hard - it's easy to tip the scales so one behavior completely dominates all others. It's an interesting lens to use to look at the heuristic reward system humans have built in (hunger, fear, desire, etc). This tends to have an adaptation/numbing effect, where repeated rewards of the same type tend to have d…

Evolution works in an incredibly complex "fitness landscape," where certain minor tweaks in phenotype or behaviors can affect your fitness in quite complex ways. Genetic Algorithms attempt to use this same system over extremely simple "fitness landscapes," where the fitness of an agent is defined by programmers using some simple mathematical formula or something. When the fitness function is being defined in the syst…

From the article: (I don't know Chinese, but the animations are clear enough.)

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV16X4y1V7Yu?p=1&share_medium...

Re: An AI wolf that preferred suicide over eating sheep

#158

Seems like a nothing story. Just looking at the game, there's obviously a constant decision to be made of chase more sheep or instantly die. It sounds like in the original model they had a max of 20 seconds, so it's not surprising that you would just tank your losses to maximize your score every now and then. Anyone who tries to devise optimal strategies for things should be able to see this isn't especially interest…

It's good because most people can understand it. I'd say it's a perfect strategy for a game, but if they're using evolutionary algorithms they should require some form of reproduction for the wolves to carry on. That would make the suicide strategy fail to propagate well. I can also see a number of possible strange outcomes even then.

What mechanism are you thinking of? One in which having offspring is rewarding and so enters into the same learning algorithm, or one in which the learning algorithm/action selection is evolved and differentially conserved?

Re: An AI wolf that preferred suicide over eating sheep

#159

The philosopher Hubert Dreyfus argued that computers, who have no body, no childhood and no cultural practice, could not acquire intelligence at all. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-0494-4 What he means is that computers, which can learn rules and use those rules to make predictions in certain domains, nevertheless cannot exercise general intelligence because they are not "in the world". This renders them…

The philosopher Hubert Dreyfus argued that computers, who have no body, no childhood and no cultural practice, could not acquire intelligence at all. Similarly, nuclear submarines, which lacking all of the critical organs of fish, are completely unable to swim.

Similarly, a brick has the ability to deep sea dive!

Re: An AI wolf that preferred suicide over eating sheep

#160

Gwern has a list of similar stories: https://www.gwern.net/Tanks#alternative-examples

FWIW, I see a critical difference between OP and my reward hacking examples: OP is an example of how reward-shaping can lead to premature convergence to a local optima, which is indeed one of the biggest risks of doing reward-shaping - it'll slow down reaching the global optima rather than speeding it up, compared to the 'true' reward function of just getting a reward for eating a sheep and leaving speed implicit - but the global optima nevertheless remained what the researchers intended. After (much more) further training, the wolf agent learned to not suicide and became hunting sheep efficiently. So, amusing, and a waste of compute, and a cautionary example of how not to do reward-shaping if you must do it, but not a big problem as these things go.

Reward hacking is dangerous because the global optima turns out to be different from what you wanted, and the smarter and faster and better your agent, the worse it becomes because it gets better and better at reaching the wrong policy. It can't be fixed by minor tweaks like training longer, because that just makes it even more dangerous! That's why reward hacking is a big issue in AI safety: it is a fundamental flaw in the agent, which is easy to make unawares, and which will with dumb or slow agents not manifest itself, but the more powerful the agent, the more likely the flaw is to surface and also the more dangerous the consequences become.

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