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OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

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Re: OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

#81

Post by j45 »

nicoburns wrote: post #58
CleverLikeAnOx wrote: post #55

A lot of comments are dismissing this because it doesn't provide a credential upon completion. But you don't get mad at a hammer for not putting staples in paper, nor get mad at a stapler for not putting nails in wood. This is a tool that gives empowers you to educate yourself, not a tool that gives you a credential. As someone with a deep love of learning and knowledge, I am delighted that this exists.

I think the reason fo this emphasis is that there are already plenty of resources for self-learning CS. Indeed a lot of the mainstream universities make their course materials available. The bit that is not typically available is the credential, so if we truly want to disrupt the edcuation model then that's the bit that needs to be solved.

This type of logic would say there no point in having more than a few CS programs worldwide because it already exists.

Credentials historically are built in the brand of the institution, a clock which is starting to tick.

Would you care for the credential of an institution if it goes out of business in the next 3-5 years?

Re: OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

#82

Post by j45 »

heenrik wrote: post #40

As someone who teaches Human-Computer Interaction in a CS program, I find it odd that there are no HCI topics on that list. Especially, when they say it's a "complete education in computer science". Perhaps it's a matter of tradition etc., but some basic knowledge about HCI might be useful ;) I'm not surprised, but still, Bush, Licklider, Engelbart, Weiser, Kay, Victor etc. are all about HCI...

HCI remains one of my favourite CS topics.

Understanding the user beyond tactics of engagement and viral loops is a valuable skill.

With the sharding of software developers into frontend and backend developers, perhaps the HCI through the software layers is falling thru the cracks.

Re: OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

#83

Post by williamtwild »

mosselman wrote: post #70
narag wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of comments are dismissing this because it doesn't provide a credential upon completion. Obvious solution would be decoupling teaching and certification. Actually, having both performed by the same institutions seems like a conflict of interest.

Another solution would be to have apprenticeship as you had them in olden days: You can become an apprentice at one or preferably a few craftsmen (IT companies) for a given number of years. They'd teach you, pay you and in the end evaluate you. You can do that in parallel to following something like the given materials in OSSU. Germany has apprenticeships as far as I am aware, I don't know enough about it though. edi…

The US still has appreticeships in skilled labor positions. Electrician and carpentry to nane a few.

Re: OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

#84

Post by the_only_law »

mssundaram wrote: post #20

If you have the opportunity to go to university, my personally small and insignificant advice - do it. If you're already established in the industry but haven't studied these things - do it.

> If you have the opportunity to go to university, my personally small and insignificant advice - do it.

I’ve attempted to look into it a few times, but it seems pretty clear they don’t want me. From the prohibitive costs, to the riding, bureaucratic admission where my high school disciplinary record is more important than my resume and where I’m a “dependent” despite what my tax returns have said for the last several years, it’s clear that universities are mostly interested in gullible HS seniors who’s parents can co-sign for insane loans. In the US at least.

Re: OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

#85

Post by ericmay »

narag wrote: post #67
CleverLikeAnOx wrote: post #55

A lot of comments are dismissing this because it doesn't provide a credential upon completion. But you don't get mad at a hammer for not putting staples in paper, nor get mad at a stapler for not putting nails in wood. This is a tool that gives empowers you to educate yourself, not a tool that gives you a credential. As someone with a deep love of learning and knowledge, I am delighted that this exists.

A lot of comments are dismissing this because it doesn't provide a credential upon completion. Obvious solution would be decoupling teaching and certification. Actually, having both performed by the same institutions seems like a conflict of interest.

Education and certification are decoupled. The problem is employers insist on the certifications. So why bother educating yourself with the same material and not just getting the certification at the same time? It’s more profitable that way if your goal is to get a job.

If you want to just learn, there are no practical barriers for most people.

Re: OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

#86

Post by thereddaikon »

ericmay wrote: post #85
narag wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of comments are dismissing this because it doesn't provide a credential upon completion. Obvious solution would be decoupling teaching and certification. Actually, having both performed by the same institutions seems like a conflict of interest.

Education and certification are decoupled. The problem is employers insist on the certifications. So why bother educating yourself with the same material and not just getting the certification at the same time? It’s more profitable that way if your goal is to get a job. If you want to just learn, there are no practical barriers for most people.

Formal education and certification are definitely not decoupled. You learn at the same university that gives you the degree.

While I agree with the above that having them under the same roof can cause a conflict of interest. But we also know for a fact that having them decoupled can cause serious problems as well. For one you end up with brain dumps that study for the cert and not for the subject matter. We see this for MCSE as much as the SAT.

While that can happen with a university as well, it doesn't always and is a useful measure of the institution's quality.

Re: OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

#87

Post by manquer »

LightMachine wrote: post #79
CleverLikeAnOx wrote: post #55

A lot of comments are dismissing this because it doesn't provide a credential upon completion. But you don't get mad at a hammer for not putting staples in paper, nor get mad at a stapler for not putting nails in wood. This is a tool that gives empowers you to educate yourself, not a tool that gives you a credential. As someone with a deep love of learning and knowledge, I am delighted that this exists.

Speaking of the subject, if someone DOES want a credential and already knows a lot of CS, are there good online courses that provide sped up process? I have been programming since 20 years ago, am a lead developer at a large company, but have no degree. Sadly some companies like Google do require it to even consider submissions, so I wonder if I should enroll an online course just for the paper.

Some companies/teams will not recognize online courses, some will only consider from "good" universities, so worth checking before you enroll.

However in my experience such organizations are really a waste of time if they insist on a degree for people with a lot of experience, every internal promotion will have similar and sometimes unreachable barriers.

Re: OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

#88

Post by ganafagol »

austincheney wrote: post #74
ChrisRR wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I think if you're the sort of person who can self teach yourself an entire CS degree in your spare time, that's going to look very good on your CV, accreditation or not. The issue would be getting past the automated CV checkers or recruiters that will throw out any applicants that don't have a certain grade

Nobody looks at grades unless you are a fresh graduate with nothing else to populate on a resume.

With less than 5 years of experience it's definitely a factor. If your straight Cs and B- and only have 3 years in some junior role, you're really not prio 1 interview material.

Re: OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

#89

Post by ganafagol »

j45 wrote: post #78
CleverLikeAnOx wrote: post #55

A lot of comments are dismissing this because it doesn't provide a credential upon completion. But you don't get mad at a hammer for not putting staples in paper, nor get mad at a stapler for not putting nails in wood. This is a tool that gives empowers you to educate yourself, not a tool that gives you a credential. As someone with a deep love of learning and knowledge, I am delighted that this exists.

Self directed learning is an invaluable skill for anyone, credential or not.

While that's true, most of the valuable employees have 1 top skill: communication. That's neither trained nor witnessed by having gone through 2 years of I-did-this-alone-at-home.

Re: OSSU: Path to a free, self-taught education in computer science

#90

Post by manquer »

heenrik wrote: post #40

As someone who teaches Human-Computer Interaction in a CS program, I find it odd that there are no HCI topics on that list. Especially, when they say it's a "complete education in computer science". Perhaps it's a matter of tradition etc., but some basic knowledge about HCI might be useful ;) I'm not surprised, but still, Bush, Licklider, Engelbart, Weiser, Kay, Victor etc. are all about HCI...

This is minimum curriculum that you need to have knowledge of. It is not full replica of undergrad course. Also CS not IT.

I am not sure learning HCI helps with computer science itself most of which is really applied math.

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