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Console Do Not Track – Proposal for a standard environment variable

consoledonottrack.com

61–70 of 352 posts

Re: Console Do Not Track – Proposal for a standard environment variable

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's add some competitive pressure: start forking projects that don't support it.

Have you got the time, expertise, and network to maintain Homebrew?

Considering the Homebrew PR they are so eager to merge was untested and won’t work according to the maintainer, I have some hypotheses.

Re: Console Do Not Track – Proposal for a standard environment variable

#62
post #27

"PRs and Status" is a very optimistic headline for a list of rejected pull requests. I like the idea, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. I can understand why some Homebrew devs think it's just an attempt from someone to pad their resume. It's essentially a single person setting up a website, then submitting a bunch of untested pull requests to a bunch of projects. I imagine this would work much better if a…

Chicken and egg problem, naturally. I'd love it to gain more traction. It was an idea and I thought it would be better an idea and a website than just an idea. It was strange to see it get labeled as a marketing attempt during my attempts to gain some traction, considering I'm not selling a damn thing. I have severe focus issues, so it had to be a one-day project unfortunately, which is why a couple of the patches we…

Can’t say I’m surprised that putting one day’s of work into getting the industry to adopt a proposed standard you came up with yourself didn’t really work out. Based on your other comments you also seem to have some level of contempt for some of the projects that you were trying to influence.

Those probably didn’t help your cause.

Re: Console Do Not Track – Proposal for a standard environment variable

#64
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicken and egg problem, naturally. I'd love it to gain more traction. It was an idea and I thought it would be better an idea and a website than just an idea. It was strange to see it get labeled as a marketing attempt during my attempts to gain some traction, considering I'm not selling a damn thing. I have severe focus issues, so it had to be a one-day project unfortunately, which is why a couple of the patches we…

Can’t say I’m surprised that putting one day’s of work into getting the industry to adopt a proposed standard you came up with yourself didn’t really work out. Based on your other comments you also seem to have some level of contempt for some of the projects that you were trying to influence. Those probably didn’t help your cause.

Yes, contempt is an accurate assessment. Shipping nonconsensual spyware is unethical, and there are too many devs in our industry who are happy to behave unethically so long as their boss tells them to.

Creating more social and reputational consequences for individual worker bees who make such commits on the job is also on my to-do list.

Ultimately the opt out vars are token efforts by developers anyway. These projects only do the bare minimum of opt-out-ability because they have to be able to point to the opt-out setting as justification for their shipping of spyware-by-default. Making it easier to opt out isn't something they want, regardless of how much I do or don't mask my contempt for such unethical, user-hostile practices.

The way the Audacity thing is playing out is instructive. Many devs simply feel entitled to take over your machine as if it is theirs and your double-click is a blank check. My PRs against autoupdates have run in to similar developer resistance.

https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/4578

https://github.com/bitwarden/desktop/issues/552

Re: Console Do Not Track – Proposal for a standard environment variable

#65

This is negative consent. I can't fathom why we are supposed to be ok with that. The variable should be named DO_TRACK.

Why would a user ever opt-in to something that has zero immediate benefit? And for authors, that would be the same as permanently disabling tracking, nobody would adopt it. It’s the worst possible scenario. What we should work towards is privacy-conscious tracking, used sparingly only for monitoring critical pieces of the software and not all user actions. Flag/reject software that violates this. Then there is no nee…

Why would a developer be allowed to enable something that has zero immediate benefit for the user, yet erodes at the user's privacy?

Privacy-conscious tracking begins with asking for permission to disclose my personal information (eg. my IP address), before anything ever goes on the wire.

Re: Console Do Not Track – Proposal for a standard environment variable

#66
Sure. But I have a question: why? Why should we opt out of the telemetry? To me, this idea seems to not just be admitting defeat, it's ensuring defeat right from the start.

Telemetry should always be opt-in. Yes, that means vendors will get much less data. It's on them to deal with it.

On a related note, I wonder how long it takes until one of the vendors of popular CLI tools or desktop apps get fined for GDPR violation. I wonder how much of existing telemetry already crosses the "informed consent" requirement threshold. I'll definitely be filing a complaint if I find a tool that doesn't ask for it when, by law, it should.

Re: Console Do Not Track – Proposal for a standard environment variable

#67
post #33
post #32

Bad-actors would ignore it wholesale anyway, so this at best gives one a false sense of privacy. It would probably be better _not_ to have it, since people won't be misguided into thinking they're not being tracked. An actual effective approach to privacy is to use a firewall to block all unwanted connections (allowlist only), and a DNS sinkhole like pi-hole. IMO we should get more on the more aggressive side when it…

The approach I use is Little Snitch. It's how I discovered most of these telemetry misfeatures in the first place.

I’ve tried Little Snitch, but was quickly annoyed at the high interaction required. Maybe I should give it another shot, especially since I use uMatrix on Firefox, which is a similar concept.

Re: Console Do Not Track – Proposal for a standard environment variable

#68
post #32

Bad-actors would ignore it wholesale anyway, so this at best gives one a false sense of privacy. It would probably be better _not_ to have it, since people won't be misguided into thinking they're not being tracked. An actual effective approach to privacy is to use a firewall to block all unwanted connections (allowlist only), and a DNS sinkhole like pi-hole. IMO we should get more on the more aggressive side when it…

Then don't install software by bad actors. /s Seriously, your concern is true for any software you run. You install software--say AWS CLI--on trust. But maybe it also installs a non-CLI keylogger, right? You'd have to do some serious investigation to know . The point, I think, is to have a standard to make it easier on the user to select the option across multiple applications. It should, imo, be opt in instead of op…

I define a bad actor here as software that makes non-consensual network connections.

Agree on the software installs, and the risks attached. Modern OSes sandbox software wrt IO permissions, IMO we should be doing that sandboxing at the network level too.

Disagree with you on the opt-in. It should be neither, the software vendor should be the one asking permission, either explicitly or as a prompt on a firewall.

Re: Console Do Not Track – Proposal for a standard environment variable

#69

> Remember: in the right hands, an IP address is a physical location. Hmmmm, I doubt this. You'd need to be an insider at an (just the right) ISP or a government agency to turn it into an exact physical location.

Yup, so, in the right hands, which is either an insider at the right ISP or a government agency, an IP address is a physical location.

Re: Console Do Not Track – Proposal for a standard environment variable

#70
Though the links on this site are now dead and incorrect for the repository on GitHub, it is good to see the author moved their repo to self-hosted Gitea (https://git.eeqj.de/sneak/consoledonottrack.com). It would be hypocritical to be against tracking and then host one's code on Microsoft's GitHub. Even better they released a blog post in 2020 about why the repos were moved (https://sneak.berlin/20200307/the-case-against-microsoft-and...).
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