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How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

learning-to-see.co.uk

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Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#61

Post by [deleted] »

wisty wrote: post #38
ipaddr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are combining too many things. Focusing on 20 simple with increasing difficult problems builds visual memory, pattern matching which is lacking with a few compounds problems. The science must be missing some inputs because the current theory is lacking.

The current theory isn't particularly lacking, the average teacher (let alone layperson's) understanding of it is lacking. Plus there's dozens of rubbish theories that are sorely lacking so you have to find the researchers that actually do solid research. IIRC (see the above, it applies to random comments on the internet) drill work is more effective (but feels less effective to both teachers and students) if it's mi…

[deleted]

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#62

Post by diordiderot »

ipaddr wrote: post #29
kiba wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Math used to be taught with more drill style. Now with common core every single problem is an epic quest of 10 frames and double pluses. It seems so ridiculous. I'd rather them crush a worksheet of 20 problems that practices a single skill then 2 problems that try to include everything from reading to drawing just for a simple subtraction problem. The problem with these 20 problems of basically the same identical cha…

You are combining too many things. Focusing on 20 simple with increasing difficult problems builds visual memory, pattern matching which is lacking with a few compounds problems. The science must be missing some inputs because the current theory is lacking.

"The science is wrong because I disagree" - ipaddr

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#63

Post by tweetle_beetle »

mch82 wrote: post #41

> I paint realism in oils, mostly still life. I showed my grandma (98) a photo on an iPad. Her immediate reaction: “there’s no reason to paint realism anymore”. The method described in this article might work for realism in oils, but please don’t accept it as the exclusive way to create art. Art is about understanding the tools you’re using to create (for example how paint mixes, moves, dries, interacts with a surfac…

> Art is about studying & talking with other artists to learn how they work, the processes they use, how they solve problems;

Everything else makes sense to me, but isn't this a bit narrow? It implies that all art is the search for some higher truth, and that it can only be achieved as a communal effort. This academic, analytical approach would seem to fit your personal art career and that of many artists important to at history. But surely there is still artistic truth in the individual practising and experimenting for themselves, outside any scene or context. There are also examples of people doing this who are considered important to art.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#64

Post by MikeLumos »

Recently I've been thinking the exact opposite things.

Many novice artists get too hung up on doing "exercises", because they're easy, straightforward, and comfortable (compared to doing the real thing). They waste a lot of time without improving all that much, because repeating exercises out of context can quickly become mindless, people tend to lose sight of the real purpose (making good drawings/paintings), and instead keep drawing boxes to "practice" perspective or get better at drawing straight lines.

I think what you need is a combination of what he's calling "scrimmage" and "drill".

To develop skills the fastest - try to do the thing that is as close to the specific real thing you want to do as possible. If you want to design characters - spend most of your time designing characters. You won't find a way to grow faster than by doing exactly what you want to get good at.

Then you can analyze your artwork, find the skills you're the weakest at, and deliberately practice them. But still, do it in the context of doing the real thing.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#66

Post by dcx »

shusaku wrote: post #6

I’m not going to disagree with the author’s main point, I’m sure doing drills is very important. But I do question their personal example. When I was in high school, I played a lot of go. But then I stopped playing for a few years. When I started again, after shaking off the rust I was a much better player. And I wasn’t doing any “drills” during those years of off time. Sometimes I think we just need a fresh perspect…

The exact same thing just happened to me recently after a 10+ year break. Ranking systems seem to have shifted a little since I last played, but I feel like I'm playing easily 3-5 kyu better than I used to at my previous peak.

I think this is a different process, though. My sense is that increased wisdom transfers very well to improvement in go. What is making me better is a better ability to prioritise, make judgments and tradeoffs, and manage risk, learned from the real world. This is nice but orthogonal to the techniques for improvement on a single skill.

During the period I first started playing, I did a little exercise where I looked at the advice people give on how to get stronger. What I found was that while you'll hear all kinds of stuff thrown around, when you look specifically at what the very strongest players (go professionals) say, you get a super consistent answer: (1) do as much tsumego as you can stomach, and (2) play as many teaching games as you can with the strongest players you can find.

This directly translates to drill and scrimmage!

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#67

Post by Cyril_HN »

I think people forget that the purpose of performance is one of two things:

1. To perform for its own sake.

2. To drill the specific skill of live performance.

If you don't want to do either of those things, it is not an efficient way to improve. You must perform to hone the skill of performance, but you should not perform to practice other skills.

Caveat: sometimes you can't drill multiple skills together and performance is the only context where you can. However, performing with that in mind is very different to performing generally.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#68

Post by username90 »

mauritzio wrote: post #65

Imho he did not be became better at "painting" but he made better designs for paintings . He trained one important aspect of the whole piece of art, the design. The aspect of applying paint was not trained, so that probably has not improved.

A skilled painter isn't just someone who is good at applying paint the way he wants, similarly as how a skilled writer isn't just someone who writes the words he intends to write. The skill includes all aspects required to make great pieces.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#69

Post by praptak »

If you want to start painting (or at least the subset of the painting skills required to draw stuff), I suggest "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards. It has some simple drills and presents just enough of the underlying theory to make you understand what the drills are for.

Re: How to get better at painting without painting anything (2015)

#70

Post by varjag »

stenl wrote: post #60
wisty wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current theory isn't particularly lacking, the average teacher (let alone layperson's) understanding of it is lacking. Plus there's dozens of rubbish theories that are sorely lacking so you have to find the researchers that actually do solid research. IIRC (see the above, it applies to random comments on the internet) drill work is more effective (but feels less effective to both teachers and students) if it's mi…

In first grade we were given a workbook for learning how to write the letters. There was one whole page of A, one page of B, etc. You had to write maybe 100 As in a row. The kids quickly figured out that the fastest way to do it was to first write the left slant 100 times, then the right slant 100 times and finally all the 100 crossbars. So yes, you do need a little variety to defeat such shortcuts.

What a brilliant way to teach kids economies of scale.
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