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Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

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Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#101

Post by rubicon33 »

rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

Thank you for sharing this! I’ve wrestled with existential questions my whole life. This is one of the best explanations for our existence that I’ve seen. Simple, and meaningful. I also love that this explanation also gives you a framework to live by. Meaning and purpose are arbitrary, but that’s really the value in them. You choose to make your life valuable. Would you really want it any other way?

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#102

Post by AnimalMuppet »

acituan wrote: post #96
rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

> Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. > Humans create meaning in the face of an uncaring, indifferent Void. I hope you realize that your assertion, which asserts a complete lack of meaning, is just as strong as the philosophies that assert meaning. To me, both are non-starters. To make progress one has to question the framing of the problem, which is actually wha…

> So maybe existential depression is a mere stuckness in a local minima of this meaning making process between the conscious looker and objective reality, in no small part thanks to our current philosophical and other institutions really sucking at training us on the dynamic loading process.

There are multiple philosophical schools in operation, and they each want to unload what the others have dynamically loaded.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#103

Post by abz10 »

It's likely genetic - i.e. an inherited Anxiety disorder. I have hypermobile Ehlers Danlos Syndrome (hEDS). It disproportionally affects Gifted people and causes a bunch of physical problems that exhibit as mental problems. hEDS is rarely diagnosed and smart people are more able to adapt around the problems and not get diagnosed entirely. It took decades of searching to figure it out myself. This does make me question the Giftedness a bit :) But I am freakishly good a things most normal people are not. So it's swings and roundabouts.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#104

Post by rendall »

Xc43 wrote: post #79
rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

Faith: patience with mystery You and I are not much different. The difference I chose to believe because I know we humans are story machines. I prefer being part of a story, as co-author than author of my own pointless story. That is all. What allows me to say "Jesus is my Lord and Savior" is my patience, my faith. I do not know more than you. But I like the story that Jesus started and am willing to be part of it at…

I'm afraid I cannot frame this question in a way that does not sound judgmental, and for that I am sincerely sorry.

I'm genuinely curious why you would pick an arbitrary story out of the infinite multitudes and "choose to believe it" as a way to combat existential despair. It would be as if I, gaining some comfort hearing about Ragnarok, "chose to believe" that Odin literally exists and somewhere there is a bifrost bridge I could visit. Can't you like the story and gain value out of it without also believing in its literal truth?

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#105

Post by remir »

What got me out of depression was studying the mind and realizing that we suffer because we polarize thoughts. We associate emotional tones/value to thoughts and if we believe these thoughts are ours, then they become our inner reality and we keep fueling the mind with more polarized thoughts. A vicious cycle.

Associating emotional energy to thoughts amplify them. It is acting like a generative energy.

Removing all polarization from thoughts cured my depression. Now when something unpleasant happens, I watch for the negative thoughts and simply observe them with detachment. I don't engage in mental scenarios and don't give them energy. Soon, they vanish, unable to take hold.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#106

Post by rendall »

alfor wrote: post #88
rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

There might not be meaning to the universe, but there is meaning in the human enterprise. We went from animals, to highly effective and conscious of ourselves and the universe. The human developpement keep pushing forward. I think that the main cause of meaninglessness is our rejection of our own culture ( mostly Christian). There is good reason to reject them as the bearded magician in the sky seem stupid to a moder…

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, but I do appreciate your response.

Sure, as metaphors and origin stories and cultural touchstones, they're worth knowing more about. But thinking these tales as literal truth is... not helpful to address existential angst. Not to someone like me, anyway. Not one among those stories explicitly says "Yes, the Universe might indeed have no meaning. That observation is valid, rational and sane. Given that, here's how to handle it..." They are all, to the last, have faith, my child, accept this {patent absurdity}, and that will save you from {other patent absurdity}

I'm not really convinced of the Jungian framework, but I do get a kick out of it. It's a hell of a lot of fun.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#107

Post by dsego »

hungrykoala wrote: post #46
rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

I think the "Universe/life has no meaning" sentence can mean two completely different things: 1. It could have a meaning, but there is none. For example food can have taste, but if it has none, we assume there is something wrong with it. 2. It is not possible for it to have a meaning, because it simply lacks that property. For example: what is the color of running? There is no color, and could never be. I think "Univ…

It could be something intangible, an emergent property, you know it when you find it sort of thing.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#108

Post by kvathupo »

acituan wrote: post #100
DangitBobby wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling out reasoning as fallacious is not as powerful as you think it is.

To me rationality is a pretty important normativity, not that I am after it for power. But since you seem to precisely know what I think, exactly how powerful should I feel about it?

I'm tired of such preoccupation on some nebulous notion of "rationality," when any cursory reading of philosophy, particularly of mathematics, informs one of the subjectivity inherent in the choice of one's axioms and definitions, especially amidst type theory's recent resurgence.

So, no: "rationality" is not common knowledge. Perhaps I don't accept the Axiom of Choice, yet you do? Perhaps my definition of "authority" differs from yours?

I am reminded of Richard Hofstadter, who said something to the effect of: "anti-intellectualism is the idea that my ignorance is just as good as your expertise."

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#109

Post by rendall »

NL807 wrote: post #54
stared wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Human-created meaning Could you give an example for "meaning" which is not "human-created"? A human (and possibly other animals') instinct to create meaning might be not different from a spider's instinct to make a web. "Meaning" looks like an evolution-selected motivation tool for long-term goals. If it is true, it is an ill-motivated question whether there is some universal meaning. The same as if there is an obj…

> Could you give an example for "meaning" which is not "human-created"? There is none, and that is the point. "Human-created" is just an emphasis that meaning is a fabricated construct by the human mind.

You got it

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#110

Post by rendall »

rubicon33 wrote: post #101
rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

Thank you for sharing this! I’ve wrestled with existential questions my whole life. This is one of the best explanations for our existence that I’ve seen. Simple, and meaningful. I also love that this explanation also gives you a framework to live by. Meaning and purpose are arbitrary, but that’s really the value in them. You choose to make your life valuable. Would you really want it any other way?

So glad it helped!

Before that course, existential despair was nearly constant, from 10 years old through my 20s, and for much the same reasons for me as for the article writer. What is this world, where adults talk about high-minded principles but then act reprehensibly in the shadows? What are principles even for, then? Why are we here? Why am I here? Anyone?

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