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Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

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Re: Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

#51

Post by xwolfi »

elric wrote: post #3

And yet we'll continue to treat climate change as an inconvenience that can be addressed in 20 years, when - to quote Alex Steffen - we're not yet ready for what's already happened. https://alexsteffen.substack.com/p/were-not-yet-ready-for-wh...

But this is not climate, it's weather. Like you look like a fool on a cold winter mocking global warning, maybe wait a bit to call summer fires in Canada hottest summer in recent memory a direct climate change effect, or it'll just be invalidated next coldest summer in recent memory...

I remember forest fires in my country decades ago and they reduced a lot recently, so what, positive result of global warming and climate change, or good application of forest management ? Temperatures changing or ... anyway you get the point :D

Re: Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

#52

Post by [deleted] »

ipaddr wrote: post #7
elric wrote: post #3

And yet we'll continue to treat climate change as an inconvenience that can be addressed in 20 years, when - to quote Alex Steffen - we're not yet ready for what's already happened. https://alexsteffen.substack.com/p/were-not-yet-ready-for-wh...

There is an inconvenient truth we all avoid when we throw out climate change. There is nothing you can do to stop climate change. If you stopped all Canadians from producing any greenhouse gases the wildfires will continue and no one will have noticed. When two countries are producing the vast majority you are at their mercy. If Canada wants to bully, bribe or shame a country into submission it has to get bigger and…

[deleted]

Re: Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

#53

Post by alkonaut »

ipaddr wrote: post #7
elric wrote: post #3

And yet we'll continue to treat climate change as an inconvenience that can be addressed in 20 years, when - to quote Alex Steffen - we're not yet ready for what's already happened. https://alexsteffen.substack.com/p/were-not-yet-ready-for-wh...

There is an inconvenient truth we all avoid when we throw out climate change. There is nothing you can do to stop climate change. If you stopped all Canadians from producing any greenhouse gases the wildfires will continue and no one will have noticed. When two countries are producing the vast majority you are at their mercy. If Canada wants to bully, bribe or shame a country into submission it has to get bigger and…

Consumers in the west are (obviously) responsible for a lot of the emissions that take place in China too.

And regardless - for the sake of solidarity with the developing world I think it must be considered fair that us westerners take a bigger responsibility than developing countries.

There are two arguments here that are both equally valid: 1) This just won't work unless everyone is on the same page, including China 2) This just won't work unless the west accepts an unconditional change of lifestyle regardless of which if any other countries are on board.

Re: Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

#54

Post by alkonaut »

xwolfi wrote: post #51
elric wrote: post #3

And yet we'll continue to treat climate change as an inconvenience that can be addressed in 20 years, when - to quote Alex Steffen - we're not yet ready for what's already happened. https://alexsteffen.substack.com/p/were-not-yet-ready-for-wh...

But this is not climate, it's weather. Like you look like a fool on a cold winter mocking global warning, maybe wait a bit to call summer fires in Canada hottest summer in recent memory a direct climate change effect, or it'll just be invalidated next coldest summer in recent memory... I remember forest fires in my country decades ago and they reduced a lot recently, so what, positive result of global warming and cli…

There is no meaningful distinction between "average weather" and "climate". Enough weather observations is a climate observation.

Re: Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

#55

Post by poutine »

chmod775 wrote: post #24
poutine wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lead by example? If you think China gives a crap about your example you’re horrendously naive.

Naive is only considering the absolute amount of emissions within some arbitrarily drawn lines on a map. The only metric that is fair, and countries like China will consider fair, is per-capita emissions. A Canadian can't justify causing three times as many CO2 emissions as a Chinese by virtue of being Canadian alone.

Staking the future of the climate on trusting countries to be fair is childish thinking.

The ONLY metric that matters is global gigatons of CO2 emitted per year. This needs to decrease. Playing hand waving games with per capita between countries is pure nonsense and provides cover for emitters.

Re: Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

#56

Post by rglover »

curuinor wrote: post #49
rglover wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now address the reliability issue. Cost is only one factor.

solar + batteries is $40/mwh?

Go further. How many batteries would it take to supply stable energy for the entire/majority of U.S. grids (and how long will those panels/batteries last)? How much energy will be produced relative to the number of solar panels that need to be installed? Is land conservation taken out of the equation in favor of panel installation?

This line of questioning was my "mind blow." It turns out, there are technological solutions, but they don't scale to meet demand (and if/when they do, it's inconsistent). And to boot, they're an aesthetic nightmare.

Re: Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

#57

Post by alkonaut »

MattGaiser wrote: post #20
heron88 wrote: post #5

One practical solution to climate change may be to shut everything down for one day each week, kind of like some places did in response to the pandemic. Close all non-essential business, restrict all non-essential travel, etc. In addition to giving our planet a much needed day off each week, it’d probably go a long way towards improving our mental health.

Given that emissions did not drop that much during the pandemic, this wouldn't be sufficient. https://www.carbonbrief.org/global-carbon-project-coronaviru...

We didn't really stop industry. It did show how little effect flying and cruises have (which is good because I like flying) but it also shows that the emissions aren't just coming from luxuries that are easy to live without.

Actually shutting down everything one day a week (giving 1/5 to 1/7 theoretical savings) isn't really going to work. Practically a lot of industry can't shut down, or would pollute a lot more by starting and stopping.

Re: Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

#58

Post by firestarter223 »

elric wrote: post #3

And yet we'll continue to treat climate change as an inconvenience that can be addressed in 20 years, when - to quote Alex Steffen - we're not yet ready for what's already happened. https://alexsteffen.substack.com/p/were-not-yet-ready-for-wh...

Neither heat waves nor forest fires are a new thing.

Re: Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

#59

Post by poutine »

sandworm101 wrote: post #33
poutine wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lead by example? If you think China gives a crap about your example you’re horrendously naive.

>> If you think China gives a crap about your example you’re horrendously naive. Tell that to the legions of Chinese immigrants who have flocked to Canada in recent years. It happened during the Hong Kong handover too. The Chinese see Canada as the more tolerant alternative to the US. Canada's opinion on China matters because that opinion is shared by the many Chinese people living in Canada. What is naïve is to igno…

By and large the CCP shapes the internal narrative with respect to China, and increasingly globally. Social connections be damned.

The Chinese will think what the CCP wants them to think.

I say this as someone who has lived in China and with family in China.

Re: Canada battles more than 180 wildfires with hundreds dead in heat wave

#60

Post by itsoktocry »

elric wrote: post #3

And yet we'll continue to treat climate change as an inconvenience that can be addressed in 20 years, when - to quote Alex Steffen - we're not yet ready for what's already happened. https://alexsteffen.substack.com/p/were-not-yet-ready-for-wh...

>And yet we'll continue to treat climate change as an inconvenience that can be addressed in 20 years

According to the EPA, wildfires over the past 40 years are slightly down. Can you point to different data that ties these wildfires to climate change?

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indica...

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