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Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

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Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#41

Post by dlvktrsh »

omegaBroom wrote: post #16

As someone who was (in my opinion wrongly) labeled gifted as a kid, I think this is because it comes with very high expectations and forces you to think about yourself and your actions all the time. Depression is basically self obsession. Life is only good when you forget about yourself. This is the same reason why social media drives depression as well.

I've always had bad social anxiety (and depression) I've always thought of it like this too.

to constantly think about how other percieve me or how they react must be because of some sort of extreme self obsession right?

I don't care what people think of me and I've strayed far off a typical life path but idk how else to explain my social anxiety

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#42

Post by triggercut »

sn41 wrote: post #14

I have read some material on how depression was viewed in history. There is at least some work in Christian theology on sloth/acedia which is not only laziness, but also has a lot of signs of what is called clinical depression [1]. While searching this, a very strange coincidence I have found is that the "demon" for sloth is the same as the demon who inspires people to make discoveries [2]. I speculate that the link…

Not sure on her sources but you may find the following interesting

https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_your_elusive_cre...

6:02 - "And that search has led me to ancient Greece and ancient Rome. So stay with me, because it does circle around and back. But, ancient Greece and ancient Rome -- people did not happen to believe that creativity came from human beings back then, OK? People believed that creativity was this divine attendant spirit that came to human beings from some distant and unknowable source, for distant and unknowable reasons. The Greeks famously called these divine attendant spirits of creativity "daemons." Socrates, famously, believed that he had a daemon who spoke wisdom to him from afar."

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#43

Post by Xplune13 »

dlvktrsh wrote: post #41
omegaBroom wrote: post #16

As someone who was (in my opinion wrongly) labeled gifted as a kid, I think this is because it comes with very high expectations and forces you to think about yourself and your actions all the time. Depression is basically self obsession. Life is only good when you forget about yourself. This is the same reason why social media drives depression as well.

I've always had bad social anxiety (and depression) I've always thought of it like this too. to constantly think about how other percieve me or how they react must be because of some sort of extreme self obsession right? I don't care what people think of me and I've strayed far off a typical life path but idk how else to explain my social anxiety

I've had a similar experience like that. I too have bad social anxiety. It's like in my head I'm watching myself in a third-person view and imagining my response to different people in different scenarios even before doing that activity. Sometimes that third person view is of a person I know (or I am meeting) and I see how my responses or reactions are to the scenarios that might happen.

I've had this for like 5-6 years now and it is at an all time high right now. This constant wandering mind then brings me a lot of anxiety and questions over why did I think the way I did.

I also don't care what people think of me when I'm consciously thinking about the topic, yet I cannot explain this automatic response checking in my head.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#44

Post by thrww20210608 »

rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

The many Marian apparitions that have been documented, makes me certain that there is meaning to life:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_apparition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

Feel free to ask me more about Catholicism if this piques your interest!

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#45

Post by ta988 »

omegaBroom wrote: post #34
grasshopperpurp wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iirc Allen Watts likened obsessively thinking about yourself to two monitors facing each other (highlighting the discordant feedback). While I still have cringe-moments when I remember things I've done (as a kid, 10 years ago, whenever), I try to remember that I am what I'm doing. For me, it puts legs on the concept of remaining in the present. Whatever self others ascribe to me, that's fine, but I don't have live by…

I think it's like when you're breathing manually. You can but it's just not the same. I always feel out of breath when I do it. Or when you start to pay attention to how you walk and simply can't do it normally, unlike when you don't even think about it. Mindfulness is misunderstood in my opinion. Everything that can be done properly automatically, should be done so.

I agree with you, many consider that being mindfull is about taking control (of breathing, emotions...) it is the exact opposite.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#46

Post by hungrykoala »

rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

I think the "Universe/life has no meaning" sentence can mean two completely different things:

1. It could have a meaning, but there is none. For example food can have taste, but if it has none, we assume there is something wrong with it.

2. It is not possible for it to have a meaning, because it simply lacks that property. For example: what is the color of running? There is no color, and could never be.

I think "Universe/life has no meaning" falls in the second category, and I have absolutely no problem with that.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#47

Post by snet0 »

carrolldunham wrote: post #30

Is there a mistake in this logic: "If you can't figure out how to stop suffering (to no end), you are not actually so smart." ? In anticipation of objection that the question of one's own suffering is somehow outside the realm of analysis: I am not a Buddhist but having tasted the freedom from emotional suffering that was the result of his (the buddha's) analysis of the situation of being alive and his logical deriva…

I'd broadly say the same thing to friends, but I don't think it really survives scrutiny. It's a useful tool for sure, in that it might inspire "smart" people to try use their "smartness" to solve their personal issues in a way they wouldn't have considered, but I think I disagree that you can't be smart if you can't solve your own problems.

Intelligence is obviously very broad, but if Terence Tao didn't know how to boil an egg, I'd still call him intelligent. Being able to solve internal personality/philosophical issues relies a lot on experience, whether through life experiences or reading other people's life experiences/analyses. You can be smart as all hell, but if you haven't read much Western philosophy, I wouldn't fault you for not coming up with useful conclusions from first principles.

I suppose a counter is that, if you're smart enough, you'll recognise that a lot of people have had your problem before, and probably a few of them have come up with a solution, and maybe a couple of those few have written about it. Like the egg case, if Terence Tao was smart he'd Google "how to boil an egg" when presented with the problem.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#48

Post by ta988 »

pickpuck wrote: post #13
krishvs wrote: post #3

Great article. The table composed by psychologist May Seagoe fits the description of some of my friends and colleagues who I perceive as gifted perfectly.

Yes! Here it is: https://dnnlv5ifs.blob.core.windows.net/portals/2/DB/Images/...

oh my... it looks like a resume of my behavior...

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#50

Post by stared »

rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

> Human-created meaning

Could you give an example for "meaning" which is not "human-created"?

A human (and possibly other animals') instinct to create meaning might be not different from a spider's instinct to make a web. "Meaning" looks like an evolution-selected motivation tool for long-term goals.

If it is true, it is an ill-motivated question whether there is some universal meaning. The same as if there is an objective cobweb.

Still - yes, it might be sad for us that "meaning" does not extrapolate beyond our human psychology.

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