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Larry Page Calls Out Facebook For Lack Of Social Data Portability

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Re: Larry Page Calls Out Facebook For Lack Of Social Data Portability

#11

Post by kmavm »

Here's what Google had to say about the exact same product decision in their social network Orkut in 2009:

"Mass exportation of email is not standard on most social networks — when a user friends someone they don’t then expect that person to be easily able to send that contact information to a third party along with hundreds of other addresses with just one click."

http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/26/orkut-slows-hemorraging-to-...

Google was right then, and Facebook is right now. You have a right to download the data you put into Facebook, but not the data your friends put into Facebook: their photos, status updates, check-ins, and yes, contact information, are all technically readable to you, but this is information your friends have contributed, not you. Providing bulk download of other people's data would be widely abused, and lead some of the same critics of Facebook's "lack of openness" in this decision to complain about Facebook's "disregard for privacy" if it were reversed.

I work for, but don't speak for Facebook, just my opinion, etc.

Re: Larry Page Calls Out Facebook For Lack Of Social Data Portability

#12

Post by theli0nheart »

kmavm wrote: post #11

Here's what Google had to say about the exact same product decision in their social network Orkut in 2009: "Mass exportation of email is not standard on most social networks — when a user friends someone they don’t then expect that person to be easily able to send that contact information to a third party along with hundreds of other addresses with just one click." http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/26/orkut-slows-hemorra…

Facebook itself lets you import your friends into Yahoo! mail. Can you please explain how this is consistent with your above post?

Re: Larry Page Calls Out Facebook For Lack Of Social Data Portability

#13

Post by pgroves »

I want interoperability of social networks, not portability.

Being able to share info across social media services would change the way social networks are used in a significant way for every user, every day.

Portability is a backup plan you hope to never use.

Re: Larry Page Calls Out Facebook For Lack Of Social Data Portability

#14

Post by Daniel14 »

kmavm wrote: post #11

Here's what Google had to say about the exact same product decision in their social network Orkut in 2009: "Mass exportation of email is not standard on most social networks — when a user friends someone they don’t then expect that person to be easily able to send that contact information to a third party along with hundreds of other addresses with just one click." http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/26/orkut-slows-hemorra…

From the same quote: "Google Contacts syncs with Orkut, so users can export their Orkut friends’ email addresses from Google Contacts", so it's technically wrong that Google didn't let you export your friend's mail addresses anymore. They just made it more difficult, ie didn't bundle it with the Orkut csv file people used to import everything into facebook.

And I think that's actually Google's point: They feel Facebook should offer reciprocity; if people can switch from Google to fb easily, fb should be willing to provide the same feature to their users.

Personally, I also don't agree with your point: I doubt the option to export your friends' email addresses in a useful file format would get abused, as it's only your friends that have access to it. You willingly added them, and thus gave them access to your email address. If you voluntarily tell a friend your email address, shouldn't he be able to remember it regardless of what social network he currently uses?

Re: Larry Page Calls Out Facebook For Lack Of Social Data Portability

#15

Post by kmavm »

theli0nheart wrote: post #12
kmavm wrote: post #11

Here's what Google had to say about the exact same product decision in their social network Orkut in 2009: "Mass exportation of email is not standard on most social networks — when a user friends someone they don’t then expect that person to be easily able to send that contact information to a third party along with hundreds of other addresses with just one click." http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/26/orkut-slows-hemorra…

Facebook itself lets you import your friends into Yahoo! mail. Can you please explain how this is consistent with your above post?

Again, emphasizing I'm not an official spokesperson here: but Yahoo! is a reputable company who is not going to sell your email contacts to spammers. The same cannot be said for every random application that gets created. So it's a whitelist, not a blacklist.

Why isn't Google on that whitelist? I don't really know, but I'd be curious what Google's side of that story is.

Re: Larry Page Calls Out Facebook For Lack Of Social Data Portability

#16

Post by justinschuh »

kmavm wrote: post #11

Here's what Google had to say about the exact same product decision in their social network Orkut in 2009: "Mass exportation of email is not standard on most social networks — when a user friends someone they don’t then expect that person to be easily able to send that contact information to a third party along with hundreds of other addresses with just one click." http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/26/orkut-slows-hemorra…

That's a very disingenuous argument. The same statement you're citing clearly points out that "Google Contacts syncs with Orkut, so users can export their Orkut friends’ email addresses from Google Contacts," which is the only other piece you need to rebuild the social graph.

The funny twist on this is that Facebook never would have experienced such rapid growth had email providers like Gmail not allowed users to easily export their contact lists. So, it seems the lesson Facebook learned here is to deny any potential competition the same advantage that more open providers gave them--otherwise it would be too easy to abandon Facebook.

Re: Larry Page Calls Out Facebook For Lack Of Social Data Portability

#17

Post by kmavm »

Daniel14 wrote: post #14
kmavm wrote: post #11

Here's what Google had to say about the exact same product decision in their social network Orkut in 2009: "Mass exportation of email is not standard on most social networks — when a user friends someone they don’t then expect that person to be easily able to send that contact information to a third party along with hundreds of other addresses with just one click." http://techcrunch.com/2009/10/26/orkut-slows-hemorra…

From the same quote: "Google Contacts syncs with Orkut, so users can export their Orkut friends’ email addresses from Google Contacts", so it's technically wrong that Google didn't let you export your friend's mail addresses anymore. They just made it more difficult, ie didn't bundle it with the Orkut csv file people used to import everything into facebook. And I think that's actually Google's point: They feel Facebo…

> it's only your friends that have access to it.

...and whatever apps your friends have authorized.

Re: Larry Page Calls Out Facebook For Lack Of Social Data Portability

#19

Post by Daniel14 »

kmavm wrote: post #17
Daniel14 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the same quote: "Google Contacts syncs with Orkut, so users can export their Orkut friends’ email addresses from Google Contacts", so it's technically wrong that Google didn't let you export your friend's mail addresses anymore. They just made it more difficult, ie didn't bundle it with the Orkut csv file people used to import everything into facebook. And I think that's actually Google's point: They feel Facebo…

> it's only your friends that have access to it. ...and whatever apps your friends have authorized.

I already feel rather uncomfortable about all the information apps can gather about me without me ever having to do anything. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be very easy to restrict that, and only let my friends have access to my personal data? I added my friends, I don't mind them having access to my data, including my email address. But apps my friends use are a very different matter.

Re: Larry Page Calls Out Facebook For Lack Of Social Data Portability

#20

Post by justinschuh »

kmavm wrote: post #15
theli0nheart wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook itself lets you import your friends into Yahoo! mail. Can you please explain how this is consistent with your above post?

Again, emphasizing I'm not an official spokesperson here: but Yahoo! is a reputable company who is not going to sell your email contacts to spammers. The same cannot be said for every random application that gets created. So it's a whitelist, not a blacklist. Why isn't Google on that whitelist? I don't really know, but I'd be curious what Google's side of that story is.

The question is not about APIs for apps; the issue is that a user cannot readily export their complete social graph from Facebook--specifically, in a way that allows them to rebuild it elsewhere in its entirety. It's trivial to easily provide that capability in a way that wouldn't expose it to apps. And obviously Facebook doesn't have an issue with sharing the data, because it's available through things like Yahoo email. However, nothing exists to make it easy for a user to retrieve it. And when something like a third-party browser extension provides the capability, Facebook seems to intentionally break it.

It seems the only reason for this is because Facebook wants to make it hard for users to leave, unless you know of some other explanation?

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