Just work hard • Hacker News Board

Re: Just work hard

#21

Post by hippich » Sun, Jul 17, 2011, 2:39 PM UTC

jmitcheson wrote: post #13

hippich wrote: post #2

At some point in my life I was into NLP (neuro-lingustic programming - just few bits of practical psychology. What I've found - many dreamers do not need to achieve it - they already experienced what they are dreaming about and it is the same as to achieve it for them. It's like watch a trailer for a movie and then get bored in the movie theater.. There is opposite side - people who never dream and find any excuse to…

Poster may be talking about something similar to this http://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_keep_your_goals_to_you... "After hitting on a brilliant new life plan, our first instinct is to tell someone, but Derek Sivers says it's better to keep goals secret. He presents research stretching as far back as the 1920s to show why people who talk about their ambitions may be less likely to achieve them."

From my experience, telling everybody around may work both ways - it may put you in to frame where you HAVE to get to your target, or get enough discussion to experience it and forget about it. But in general, I would say yes - for me it is better to keep things in secret, try to build dependencies on these targets and slowly go through it.

Re: Just work hard

#22

Post by wdewind » Sun, Jul 17, 2011, 3:33 PM UTC

As a millennial who actually works his ass off I always feel somewhat compelled to respond to these. Many of my friends who just graduated, especially non-developers, actually want nothing more than to put in hard work and get stuff done. Unfortunately the few jobs that are out there for young people rarely actually involve working hard if it is building towards a career. Sure, you can go off and work your ass of as a waiter, but if you want to go into something that's going to give you a long term career (an internship or intro office job), guess what: you wont be required to work nearly as hard as you can, and it will fucking bore you, and will not require even 20 hours a week of actual work, and in the end you will have pushed some papers around. When you compound this with the fact that the cultural presentation of work that we've gotten for our entire lives is that "it sucks and there's nothing you can do about it" (something I whole-heartedly disagree with), it's no wonder our generation is "lazy."

Millennials "lack direction" (at least in work) because they are being told over and over again that they are in the most fun time of their lives, it's all down hill from here, and that there is no chance at a fulfilling work life. Outside of software engineering, there is little "hard work" available that actually builds towards a career. Finally, when you add in the massive moral ambiguity of working at many companies (Philip Morris seems to own half the country), it again becomes very difficult to become motivated about work. I think most of us really do want to work hard and accomplish things but it is really not clear how to do that.

Re: Just work hard

#23

Post by j_baker » Sun, Jul 17, 2011, 3:35 PM UTC

Work hard, eh? I'm sure the author has spent many years contemplating this unique advice. I've got more fatherly advice while we're at it: save money, try your hardest, don't put your elbows on the table, and close the door, you're air conditioning the entire neighborhood.

In all seriousness, did anyone else find this post incredibly condescending? If the new generation has these problems (and I don't think they do anymore than the generations before), it's going to take a lot more than platitudes to solve our problems.

Re: Just work hard

#24

Post by simmons » Sun, Jul 17, 2011, 3:40 PM UTC

Let's not forget that work is a vector quantity: direction is as important (or more important) than magnitude.

Also, it's important to understand the relationship between work and productivity. I knew a wannabe programmer who once bragged about how much "hard work" he put into an 8-hour day of manually tweaking data, when he could have written a program to do it in a half hour.

Re: Just work hard

#25

Post by rglover » Sun, Jul 17, 2011, 3:46 PM UTC

I think for the HN crowd (generally not a lazy bunch), this may come off as a bit trite. But what the author is saying here is not confounded. I have plenty of friends who fall into this category. They fail to realize that in order to get somewhere, you have to work your ass off. Not to mention, his remark about caring about popularity and fame over having a nice family or caring for others is spot on. There are a lot of intelligent kids ambling about, carelessly making choices that for the most part will not help them to excel or move forward in life. For those that it applies to, this is a good article.

Re: Just work hard

#26

Post by cema » Sun, Jul 17, 2011, 3:54 PM UTC

nochiel wrote: post #19

relef wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, wait a minute, you are procrastinating on HN just like the rest of us. Pfffft, working ....

Just because an individual is browsing HN does not mean the individual is procrastinating. Please consult a dictionary for an accurate definition of the term.

I think the right term has 4 letters, starts with a j, ends with an e, and has an ok in the middle.

Re: Just work hard

#27

Post by cema » Sun, Jul 17, 2011, 4:03 PM UTC

hippich wrote: post #2

At some point in my life I was into NLP (neuro-lingustic programming - just few bits of practical psychology. What I've found - many dreamers do not need to achieve it - they already experienced what they are dreaming about and it is the same as to achieve it for them. It's like watch a trailer for a movie and then get bored in the movie theater.. There is opposite side - people who never dream and find any excuse to…

I think there is something to it. In any case, kids (as well as adults) need to remember that dreaming is only part of the deal, that they still need to reach towards the goal, not just imagine it. Working towards a dream has to become a habit.

Re: Just work hard

#28

Post by billswift » Sun, Jul 17, 2011, 4:06 PM UTC

johnw wrote: post #5

Putting in the hard work is a huge part of being successful, no doubt, but this article talks as if it is the ONLY important thing, which I disagree with. You can easily end up working hard on the wrong thing. Writing an app or building a startup that sells something nobody wants for example. There are plenty of people working super hard on already doomed projects because they didn't do enough market research or list…

It seemed to me that the article wasn't saying it was the only important thing, but that it was the one thing most likely to be missing.

Re: Just work hard

#29

Post by jjanzer » Sun, Jul 17, 2011, 4:36 PM UTC

wdewind wrote: post #22

As a millennial who actually works his ass off I always feel somewhat compelled to respond to these. Many of my friends who just graduated, especially non-developers, actually want nothing more than to put in hard work and get stuff done. Unfortunately the few jobs that are out there for young people rarely actually involve working hard if it is building towards a career. Sure, you can go off and work your ass of as…

I think the problem here is that not all employers will challenge you. In my mind, the key to finding enjoyment in your work if it's not challenging is to challenge yourself. Unless your job is oppressive to self direction there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from creating or doing something that is positive for the business and challenging for you. As a few examples you could find ways to optimize a system that is inefficient (it doesn't even need to be at the software level), analyze information about your customers, find ways to save money, research ways to get new clients, etc. A side benefit to challenging yourself is that you will find it quite rewarding. I can highly recommend Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's book on "flow" in regards to the phenomenon around it.

I think what I'm trying to say is by challenging yourself to be more than what it is your employer expects out of you results in a net win for both you and your company.

Re: Just work hard

#30

Post by quanticle » Sun, Jul 17, 2011, 4:38 PM UTC

wdewind wrote: post #22

As a millennial who actually works his ass off I always feel somewhat compelled to respond to these. Many of my friends who just graduated, especially non-developers, actually want nothing more than to put in hard work and get stuff done. Unfortunately the few jobs that are out there for young people rarely actually involve working hard if it is building towards a career. Sure, you can go off and work your ass of as…

I also have to wonder how much of this perceived lack of hard work is because of changes in the social contract between workers and employees. As late as the '70s, there was an implicit contract between employers and employees. Employees work hard, and in return, employers take care of them.

Starting with the '80s and continuing through today, that contract (outside of a select few firms) has been thoroughly eroded. We are no longer workers, we are human resources. It doesn't matter how many years of service we have, the next senior management shuffle can mean the abrupt end of our employment with that firm. These changes mean that there is no payoff in being loyal to an employer. Given that, its no wonder that others see Millenials as being shiftless and disloyal. What's the reward for hard work in a corporate environment, when the continued existence of your job is more dependent on the vagaries of senior management politics than your performance?