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World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

independent.co.uk

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Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#31

Post by akersten »

Take a minute to think, on this Sunday night, about how much personal time you've had this week. You've most likely spent 5 of the last 7 days making someone else richer, at the expense of an incredible toll on your body and mind: an artificially early wake-up to an alarm, a late-night frozen pizza dinner because there's no time to cook and clean up for yourself, and you're finally sitting down getting ready to relax when you remember you get to start the whole week over again tomorrow morning.

2 days is not enough time to recover from the hell that is the modern salaried work week. Let's use some of the amazing surplus we've generated to make life easier for ourselves for once. The 4 day workweek is just the beginning.

https://reddit.com/r/antiwork for more inspiration.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#32

Post by SilverRed »

ashtonkem wrote: post #8
bpodgursky wrote: post #3

One of the lessons of trying to optimize worker productivity, health and happiness during the industrial revolution is that almost any change was an "overwhelming success" during the trial period, because of some combination of (1) a change of routine, (2) placebo effect -- people like the idea that someone is trying to help them and their mood improves accordingly. Might even be true here (it would be nice!), but in…

That argument was used against a lot of things that turned out to be a good thing, like the 40 hour work week. What’s your suggesting other than naysaying this trial?

They raise a good point. I would expect a huge boost in productivity during a trial period as workers are hyped about the change and want to prove it works. But that they may eventually wear out and return to normal but with less hours now.

I don't think OP is suggesting that the findings are outright wrong, but that long term studies are required to know exactly how things play out. We have so many short term trial results but none that I have seen which show the effects after multiple years.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#33

Post by bostondavidvc »

nameoda wrote: post #29
irrational wrote: post #19

> four nine hour days How many of you are salaried, yet your hours are tracked? My job is such that I roll in whenever I want, leave whenever I want. As long as I get my work done, nobody cares how long I actually work each day. A few decades ago, my first job out of college did track hours. That was pure hell.

What I have observed in software development companies is that there is no limit where one can say, "My work is done". When one task is complete, there is another one ready to pick up. So, the only way to stop working for a day is to track your hours and say, "I have worked for 8 hours today and I will pause the work until tomorrow". What field and role are you working in, where you can roll in whenever you want and…

> there is no limit where one can say, "My work is done"

I'm a couple years into my first software job, at Google. We don't do performance evaluations relative to whether you're doing as much work as you're capable of in 40 hours. You're evaluated against a fixed rubric corresponding to the job level. In other words, if you're capable of doing a Software Engineer N's worth of work in 40 hours and your title is Software Engineer N-1, you can either put in the 40 hours and get promoted to Software Engineer N eventually, or you can work less and still be perfectly productive relative to your current role's expectations. Plenty of people make that latter choice and work well under 40 hours.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#34

Post by seibelj »

akersten wrote: post #31

Take a minute to think, on this Sunday night, about how much personal time you've had this week. You've most likely spent 5 of the last 7 days making someone else richer, at the expense of an incredible toll on your body and mind: an artificially early wake-up to an alarm, a late-night frozen pizza dinner because there's no time to cook and clean up for yourself, and you're finally sitting down getting ready to relax…

If you are tired of making someone else rich, you could start your own business. But that’s a lot of work, and as someone who is anti-work, I don’t think that’s possible for you and your comrades. But the option is there!

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#35

Post by akersten »

seibelj wrote: post #34
akersten wrote: post #31

Take a minute to think, on this Sunday night, about how much personal time you've had this week. You've most likely spent 5 of the last 7 days making someone else richer, at the expense of an incredible toll on your body and mind: an artificially early wake-up to an alarm, a late-night frozen pizza dinner because there's no time to cook and clean up for yourself, and you're finally sitting down getting ready to relax…

If you are tired of making someone else rich, you could start your own business. But that’s a lot of work, and as someone who is anti-work, I don’t think that’s possible for you and your comrades. But the option is there!

Like all movements, there's more to it than just the name - don't take it too literally: working for myself is the ultimate goal! And if I ever do find success enough to require employees, I could never imagine asking them to spend 71% of their week thinking about me and my problems. Maybe it's easy to daydream egalitarian - but I think we as a society can do better for each other.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#36

Post by seibelj »

akersten wrote: post #35
seibelj wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are tired of making someone else rich, you could start your own business. But that’s a lot of work, and as someone who is anti-work, I don’t think that’s possible for you and your comrades. But the option is there!

Like all movements, there's more to it than just the name - don't take it too literally: working for myself is the ultimate goal! And if I ever do find success enough to require employees, I could never imagine asking them to spend 71% of their week thinking about me and my problems. Maybe it's easy to daydream egalitarian - but I think we as a society can do better for each other.

A perusal of that subreddit is full of a lot of anti-capitalist propaganda and some obvious logical fallacies. I don’t think consuming that subreddit is very healthy or productive.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#37

Post by benbayard »

seibelj wrote: post #34
akersten wrote: post #31

Take a minute to think, on this Sunday night, about how much personal time you've had this week. You've most likely spent 5 of the last 7 days making someone else richer, at the expense of an incredible toll on your body and mind: an artificially early wake-up to an alarm, a late-night frozen pizza dinner because there's no time to cook and clean up for yourself, and you're finally sitting down getting ready to relax…

If you are tired of making someone else rich, you could start your own business. But that’s a lot of work, and as someone who is anti-work, I don’t think that’s possible for you and your comrades. But the option is there!

It’s not just hard, it’s unlikely to be successful because of how rare successful businesses happen.

Working 4 days a week at a stable successful company isn’t the same as starting a new business so that eventually you can work 4 days a week.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#38

Post by cecilpl2 »

SilverRed wrote: post #30
nameoda wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I have observed in software development companies is that there is no limit where one can say, "My work is done". When one task is complete, there is another one ready to pick up. So, the only way to stop working for a day is to track your hours and say, "I have worked for 8 hours today and I will pause the work until tomorrow". What field and role are you working in, where you can roll in whenever you want and…

Also you have some days where you feel super productive and get loads done and some where things are difficult or you are tired and not a lot gets done. If you leave early on the productive days, would you stay back longer on the days you aren't doing so well? And how do you know if you were actually very productive one day and not that the task was overestimated and actually very easy? Would you want to be on the ho…

> If you leave early on the productive days, would you stay back longer on the days you aren't doing so well?

No, I do exactly the opposite. I work longer when I'm super productive, and I cut out early when I'm not having a good day. It seems obvious that you'd try to optimize for working the hours when you are most effective.

> And how do you know if you were actually very productive one day and not that the task was overestimated and actually very easy?

I think that comes with experience - sometimes you just know when the ideas are flowing and the code seems to write itself, and then other times you recognize that you've spent hours banging your head against something only to realise you overlooked something trivial.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#39

Post by seibelj »

benbayard wrote: post #37
seibelj wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are tired of making someone else rich, you could start your own business. But that’s a lot of work, and as someone who is anti-work, I don’t think that’s possible for you and your comrades. But the option is there!

It’s not just hard, it’s unlikely to be successful because of how rare successful businesses happen. Working 4 days a week at a stable successful company isn’t the same as starting a new business so that eventually you can work 4 days a week.

Whelp that settles it - absolutely nothing you can do in life but be miserable until you die.

Re: World’s largest ever four day week trial in Iceland ‘overwhelming success’

#40

Post by ctdonath »

benbayard wrote: post #37
seibelj wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are tired of making someone else rich, you could start your own business. But that’s a lot of work, and as someone who is anti-work, I don’t think that’s possible for you and your comrades. But the option is there!

It’s not just hard, it’s unlikely to be successful because of how rare successful businesses happen. Working 4 days a week at a stable successful company isn’t the same as starting a new business so that eventually you can work 4 days a week.

Then maybe the bosses & investors for those few successful companies deserve their profits after all.
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