San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours

#61

Post by b9a2cab5 » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:43 PM UTC

sdenton4 wrote: post #36

rich_sasha wrote: post #10

Non-American resident: what’s going on in SF? Is the crime rate really so high, and racing up? And if so, why?

No it's not. https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim... Pretty random fluctuations across crime categories year over year (5% up for robbery, vehicle theft, 11% down for larceny/theft, which is what this articles about...). For reference, it looks like a few years ago SF was 9th in the us for robbery, at 34 per 10k residents. The current sf stats come to about 40 per 10k residents. https://www.sa…

That's because police don't even bother to report these crimes anymore. See: the article posted recently with the video of shoplifters straight up clearing out an entire Walgreens and no police in sight.

Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours

#62

Post by megameter » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:43 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #32

tolbish wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you so sure it will set back police reform? The idea that "the police should be held accountable" and the idea that "the police are necessary and should be funded" are not mutually exclusive.

> Why are you so sure it will set back police reform? The effect is palpable in New York. The current lead candidate is campaigning on a promise of increasing police powers. There was direct campaigning on not letting New York become San Francisco, and keeping the Chesas out of the DA seats.

Yep. The reason why San Francisco has to be seen failing is because of the national implications of success. It's been a punching bag for decades, it just had a brief respite for a while.

Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours

#63

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

goodells wrote: post #49

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> refuses-to-prosecute Almost like selective enforcement of the law is a step towards tyranny and we’ve know that for hundreds of years.

There's a difference between "everybody jay-walks so the police always have an excuse to pick you up" and violent crimes that the community as a whole notices go unpunished by repeat offenders.

So to OP’s and my point, are you saying “everybody steals cars in WI” or are you saying that their DA doesn’t prosecute anyone for auto theft?

Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours

#64

Post by tedunangst » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #33

PakistaniDenzel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore

You mean the place where you get thrown in prison then caned for tagging? Wow, I'd never want to visit that police state. Sounds like a lovely place. https://www.foxnews.com/world/singapore-sentences-swiss-man-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay EDIT: time spent in prison was off by 7 months

Your links are also off by a decade or two.

Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours

#65

Post by kunagi7 » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

PakistaniDenzel wrote: post #29

SavantIdiot wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me what city you're from and I find a scary headline. Be honest.

Singapore

Run before he knows about Yishun. Still, a difficult feat to match.

Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours

#66

Post by lokar » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #47

rich_sasha wrote: post #10

Non-American resident: what’s going on in SF? Is the crime rate really so high, and racing up? And if so, why?

Here is a really broad, and hopefully neutral, take on the subject. There is now a popular movement in America that believes the Justice System is too harsh, especially on minor crimes. This is also coupled with the perception that police officers are prone to using force when it is unnecessary, and, that they use deadly force way too often and haphazardly. There is also a huge racial component to all of this, which…

Re: using the sidewalk as a toilet.

There is often no public restroom available for the homeless to use. They have no choice.

Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours

#67

Post by JumpCrisscross » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

tolbish wrote: post #60

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you so sure it will set back police reform? The effect is palpable in New York. The current lead candidate is campaigning on a promise of increasing police powers. There was direct campaigning on not letting New York become San Francisco, and keeping the Chesas out of the DA seats.

Not letting New York become San Francisco is not mutually exclusive with police reform. Is the current lead candidate against police accountability/police reform?

> Is the current lead candidate against police accountability/police reform?

Yes, he is a former cop and law and order candidate [1]. (It’s not cut and dry. He opposed stop and frisk in our Senate but wants to reinstate solitary confinement, for example.)

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Adams_(politician)

Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours

#68

Post by oneplane » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

hallway_monitor wrote: post #48

Wellrowed wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for a large foreign (but global retailer) with locations in the Bay Area including San Francisco. The bill for our monthly necessary armed security exceeds $20,000 a month. My foreign coworker’s minds were blown that even every starbucks location needs security.

This honestly blows my mind. So SF is basically a third world country now?

Isn't that most of the densely populated city in the US in general?

Fear, weapons and violence as soon as it gets dense. Every large/chain business comes with lots of armed protection.

I haven't travelled to all the cities in the entire US, but whenever you enter/exit such areas is seems very distinct.

Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours

#69

Post by adjkant » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #47

rich_sasha wrote: post #10

Non-American resident: what’s going on in SF? Is the crime rate really so high, and racing up? And if so, why?

Here is a really broad, and hopefully neutral, take on the subject. There is now a popular movement in America that believes the Justice System is too harsh, especially on minor crimes. This is also coupled with the perception that police officers are prone to using force when it is unnecessary, and, that they use deadly force way too often and haphazardly. There is also a huge racial component to all of this, which…

I think this is a pretty decent summary, but I do genuinely have one factual question here:

> Many homeless people defecate and urinate freely in public because the police have simply stopped issuing citations for such behavior.

What was a citation doing previously on this given that homeless people would simply ignore a citation? Has this actually increased in a way we can measure? I haven't been in SF since the pandemic, but none of my friends have complained about this in the area, and it seems to me like this assessment appears to be very much split on agreement by political lines.

I'm also skeptical of this because I've seen claims of this in my current city (NYC) yet have not seen and general increase save one neighborhood, Times Square. From what I gather, the business district of SF (SOMA) might also just be getting a slight increase here, expanding out from the tenderloin which has always had this as far as the past decade is concerned. Is there anything more widespread than that? It seems like that simply was due to the lack of people actually working in both areas now due to the pandemic, not any police enforcement.

Re: San Francisco Organized Shoplifting Surge Prompts Target to Cut Operating Hours

#70

Post by convolvatron » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #47

rich_sasha wrote: post #10

Non-American resident: what’s going on in SF? Is the crime rate really so high, and racing up? And if so, why?

Here is a really broad, and hopefully neutral, take on the subject. There is now a popular movement in America that believes the Justice System is too harsh, especially on minor crimes. This is also coupled with the perception that police officers are prone to using force when it is unnecessary, and, that they use deadly force way too often and haphazardly. There is also a huge racial component to all of this, which…

I think you're being way too neutral. San Francisco is really sliding into chaos. There is an entire population that steals, sells and buys drugs, lives on the street and has a full time party. the church and the leftists even bring them food every day.

do I feel sorry for them? a little. are they making it difficult to live, work, and run a business in the city? absolutely.

have a drug dealer operating outside your bedroom window all night for months at time? cops don't care. tweakers start a big bonfire in the middle of the street? cops don't care. homeless persons dogs attacking anyone that tries to use the sidewalk? cops don't care.

before the pandemic, it was bad, but the cops would step in if this got too out of line. there was a bit of a detente.

if you were a homeless tweaker with nothing but contempt for the idiots that work at jobs and live in houses, and it was clear you could do anything you wanted without fear of repercussion. what would you do?